Ep073 - Culinary Storytelling with Holly Hearn

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In this episode of the Okayest Cook Podcast, host Chris Whonsetler is joined by professional chef Holly Hearn, owner of Game Girl Gourmet. Holly discusses her journey into becoming a wild game chef, emphasizing the importance of storytelling through food and honoring culinary traditions. The conversation spans her experience on the TV show Chopped, the India Project with Blood Origins, and her unique approach to creating dishes inspired by the native habitats of wild game. Holly also shares insights on making dishes accessible and adaptable, and the challenges of cooking for different audiences including children. The episode provides valuable tips for both novice and experienced home cooks interested in incorporating wild game into their meals.

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Chris: we'll hit the ground running. Okay. Sound good? Sounds great. Awesome. Awesome.

All right. Welcome back to Okayest Cook. Podcast, I'm your host, Chris Whonsetler, again, coming at you from the home office today. It's been a bit of a week. We're staying away from the studio. The kids are still fully back at school and the sickness is running around, so I've still got the little scratchy radio voice going on and that's life.

That's life when you have little kids. The cooking has been somewhat minimal as the sickness rolls through the house, but such is life. But today, yeah, we're not gonna talk about sickness. All evening here today. But we've got a guest. We've got Holly Hearn joining us. Did I say your name properly?

Yes. It was Holly Hearn. I didn't ask. Okay, good. Holly Hearn. I'm yeah. Notorious for not asking how to pronounce things before I just get going. Holly, how are you today? 

Holly: I'm good. 

Chris: Yes. So you were introduced to me via a friend here in town, Adam Perry and Adam just did a really. Cool trip experience work.

Yeah. He did something with you. Yeah. You guys were hanging out. 

Holly: Yeah. 

Chris: Yes. That's awesome. We we will dive into that here in a second. I'm getting my ahead of myself already. Yeah. Have you eaten anything cool lately? Any notable meals you wanna chat about?

Holly: Eaten anything cool or made anything cool, 

Chris: eaten made?

Yeah, we should we tell 

Holly: everybody like who I am and what I do before we jump into that? We can do that 

Chris: first. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think, like 

Holly: it's all all like. Context. We like to 

Chris: keep people in the dark and clueless. Yeah. 

Holly: No tell us. My name's Holly Hearn and I own a business called Game Girl Gourmet.

I'm a professional, private, wild game chef, and I work on hunting ranches, sport fishing, yachts. So anything that has to do with wild caught, wild shot, anything like that is what I do. And then I, practice field to table butchery or nose to tail butchery, and. And big into the field to table thing.

But yeah, so that's just a little bit of a back information on what I do. Yeah. And one of the coolest things I made lately was right now in Texas, it's been sport fishing season. Part of my business is I do meal preps for sport fishing yachts. Oh, cool. And I just went and caught a red snapper and I made him into four different fried snapper sandwiches that were all like internationally inspired. Like I did one that was a Parmesan crusted snapper with a little tomato basil relish on top on brioche with a lemon pepper ricotta. 

Speaker 3: Oh geez. 

Holly: And then I made something cool, a couple like that was last week.

What else did I make? Man? I make so many things like cooking really is my passion. Even outside of doing it professionally. Yeah, I think the creative part of just hanging out in my kitchen and like playing chopped when I open the fridge 

Speaker 3: yes, just is something that love that. Yeah.

Holly: Will always always be my favorite part.

But yeah I love getting creative and just, throwing things together, using what I have. And just having fun with it. 

Chris: Yeah. Honestly, that, that's a good segue into my meal of the week. And it's actually a meal I had a long time ago. We had Indianapolis Pizza Fest here in town and there was a a.

A company, black Sheep, I believe it was. They had a pizza. The photos were super cool, like super dynamic. The chef was just like, he had his grater and the orange, and he was just grating like orange peel on top of this pizza. But he also dusted it with. A ton of just crazy stuff, and I'm having a hard time reverse engineering it in my mind, so I might have to flash a photo.

Holly, I'll have to show you the photo later. We don't have to Yeah, for sure. To chat about this. We'll have to dive into it, but it was like, there's some pistachios going on. Pistachio, I don't know the orange. 

Holly: That's a really good photo. 

Chris: Gosh. But on a pizza. Yeah. Yeah. And I can't place the cheese or the sauce, I I need to reach out to the chef and ask him what was going on. But just super dynamic. I love when like the food presentation, the creation looks super fun. Yeah. And so immediately that caught my eye. That's really 

Holly: actually so important. I think like people, we eat with our eyes first and so percent man, when you have a beautifully plated dish, it makes all the difference for how, like the end, how the person is receiving it.

Yes. 

Chris: Yes. And again, it's like the pizza shop where you can see 'em, toss it and making the pizza in front of you. That's 

Holly: all the experience it like it. Yes. And that's what I kind of love about being a private chef is I usually am working in open kitchens and so people will come and sit at my bar and we'll just talk, but they get the full experience of seeing all the fresh ingredients and like the story of where the, the wild game came from.

Because a lot of times I'm cooking with my client's wild game and I like to tell the story of their hunts, like through the food. Yeah. 

Chris: Super cool, but yeah, like you, you mentioned Chopped which I saw you were on. Yeah, I was on chopped. You participated on Chopped? 

Holly: Yeah. It was crazy experience. 

Chris: Oh man.

I creeping around your Instagram and was it a year ago? Yeah, actually. 

Holly: Oh my gosh. That is so funny. We're talking to. So tomorrow is the like year to date from when that episode aired. Oh, 

Chris: for real? Yeah. Oh, sick. I need to go watch that. I'm, yeah huge fan of the show, but like past couple years, like it's I don't know where to watch it, so it's fallen off my radar.

Yeah. Kids getting in the way of things. For sure. 

Holly: I don't watch a ton of tv. Such a fun show. It was such a great experience. Honestly, I like, for me, that was such a such a pivotal moment in the level of confidence that I started moving with because. I had started as chef. I can never imagine a being on that show, like it 

Chris: would just chef.

Holly: And I'd only been doing this for four years at the time when the, producers had called me. So it was jeez, crazy. And then I was the youngest person competing. I was 29 years old. And I was don't 

Chris: spoil it, but yeah. Tell us a little bit about the experience.

Holly: I'm just, yeah. I'm going into the experience like I was 29 years old.

Yeah. I was the youngest person competing and I was the only person that had no professional, like extensive professional. Like restaurant or culinary training. Like I have a degree in engineering. 

Speaker 4: Oh geez. 

Holly: So it was such a unique, it was so cool to me. And I had such a great time. I really hope I get to go back one day because man, I, and the feedback to open yourself up to feedback like that at such a high professional level from people that have built like 

Speaker 3: yes 

Holly: crazy food brands, like restaurateurs, food experts, to like, just to get that feedback like that is like a once in a lifetime thing.

So it was incredible. 

Chris: Yeah. For the listeners who aren't familiar, first of all. Go check it out. It's such a fun show. But do you wanna break down like the premise of what you guys did on Chopped and then 

Holly: yeah, sure. Can you share like 

Chris: in your basket, like for one of the rounds?

Like what did you work with? 

Holly: My basket, like I, you'll have to watch the episode, but in my basket there was rattle rattlesnake, duck, head soup, mangoes, and bagels. 

Speaker 5: Ooh. All right. 

Holly: Yeah it. It was such an interesting combination of things, but like immediately, was it like 

Chris: a full on rattlesnake?

Did you have to skin it and stuff? Yeah. 

Holly: No, it didn't have the skin on. I So like food network is actually weird about that they like if you The butchering. Yeah. Yeah. They're even weird about throwing lobsters in a pot of boiling water, which is crazy. But they are. So yeah, it was just the meat.

Just the meat on the snake. Okay. And that was like, actually some of the feedback that I got from the judges, they're like, man, you knew exactly what to do with that wild game. Yes. And then you struggled a little bit with the, with cutting the mango and which was, I was, 20 minutes is so quick.

You really, the snake? 

Speaker 5: No problem. The mango. Yeah. Yeah. 

Holly: Like the, I know. It's so funny. The like you really like the concept of how short of amount of time 20 minutes is, it's crazy. Is crazy. And what you see really is what you get. That's very real. Like they actually have us, like when they're filming the show, they actually, you have the basket is empty but they make you open it like five or six times and film you doing it.

So you get desensitized because you're like, heart rate is so high, there's cameras on boons moving and in and out of your face, people are running around it's such a. It's so cool to have been able to be a part of that production and just have some like insight to really what goes on big big productions.

And that really, that wasn't like my first time being on like being involved in a nationally produced food, TV sort of situation. When I was a senior in college. Master Chef reached out and asked me to audition, and so I'd gone through that process as well. Oh, nice. And made it like all the way to Los Angeles.

And this is prior to COVID. And then got, sent home literally before they shut LAX down. Oh no. But it was, it, like truly it was so great. Chopped was such a fun, fun time because that's, yes, a lot of where like I think my greatest recipes come from is like pushing myself to. Make things with what I currently have and yeah, I always keep really stocked spices.

And just so if you have a large variety of stuff, the more things you can do and like pantry items and stuff like that. So it was really fun to play into that creative, creative part of my brain. I ended up making like a rattlesnake bruschetta because I'm not sure what else you do with like bagels.

Ooh, duck head soup. Yeah, mangoes, duck, head soup and rattlesnake. But yeah, so 

Chris: I could see that, yeah. Being like super fresh and like I've I'm struggling to remember, I don't think I've ever had snake. I've never had rattlesnakes. It's very 

Speaker 3: earthy. 

Chris: Is it like texturally fishy or like how I, how does something hold up?

Say 

Holly: it's fishy? Have you ever had alligator, like fla, 

Chris: flaky, like a fish? I've, yeah. It's definitely not flaky. Okay. I've had alligator similar. It's similar. It's a reptile. 

Holly: It's if like pork and fish had a baby, like that's how I describe alligator to most people. But it doesn't have any of the fishy flavor.

Like alligator can sometimes have a little bit of that. More fish forward flavors because of their diet. Like snakes are very they don't, they're earthy they proteins. Yeah. Yeah. So they taste like it. 

Chris: I see that. Yeah. I just talked to Jordan Lingerer, who was a cook at the Wild Game, Cookoff at BHA Rendezvous.

And that was a super fun episode. But the guy at the table next to him was from Florida and brought iguana. Oh, nice. And that was super fun. Nice. Yeah. The first time I've ever had iguana, I've been wanting to go on a 

Holly: iguana hunt So bad. Yes. 

Chris: I really want to, 'cause that was good. Like he's really, it's Brett really good.

Protein was 

Holly: good. I think people like the, it's, again, it's like most types of wild game. What I think that I've run into over the years of doing this is that people just, they're intimidated by it. They don't know how to cook it. They don't wanna mess it up.

Chris: It's slightly taboo as well yeah.

If you talk to your average Indiana cook Yeah. I guess You wanna try some rattlesnake or no. 

Holly: Yeah, I would, I guess that's, yeah. I think for me, because I live in Texas where like everything bites and everything is food. Yeah. I had nothing surprising me. It's a little different. And then I've traveled and worked all over the world, so I've been like very exposed to a lot of, like a multitude of cultures.

So just about the only thing that I'm like really not comfortable with is and don't crucify me because this is other people's cultures and they're okay with it. And I'm okay with it. But me personally, I don't think that I could bring myself to cook like. Dog or cat and, but I know in some cultures like or horse like that's.

There's, and I don't see anything wrong with it in their cultural context, but for me, all food, like anything goes, my like least favorite thing is raccoon. I swear it smells so bad when it's being cooked. And I know and I know it tastes fine. And you know what, maybe actually, maybe I'm carrying some of that trauma.

I make fun of people for having, like, when people are like, I don't eat wild game, and they're like, I had this bad experience when I was like. 12. Oh maybe I just called myself out a little bit uhoh, but yeah, no, it's, try it again. Yeah. It's so awesome. Like the variety of proteins that we have naturally here in the United States.

Yes. And then especially in Texas with all the exotic hunting, there's, it's so cool to see. And I love, in the last five years there's been such like a renaissance of. I think what people are willing to think about food. 

Chris: Yeah, go. Going back to exotics and raccoons. Have you ever cooked a armadillo?

Holly: No. Armad, what's a situation there? Has leprosy? They carry leprosy. 

Chris: I've heard. Yeah, I've heard. They're like super, super nasty. 

Holly: They're really cute though. I've caught a couple. So cute. They're so cute. I've caught a couple and then I'm like, man, I should put this thing down. I'm going to get leprosy.

Chris: Oh no. We so here in Indiana, like we literally have. Some armadillo population, like starting to form oh, here which we've never really seen before, like we're too far north. But yeah they're starting to pop up a little bit and it got me thinking like can we cook 'em?

Holly: Probably shouldn't on that one.

Chris: But if it's doomsday, if it's already the apocalypse, yeah, sure. Let's give it a go. 

Holly: Probably 

Chris: in the raccoon realm for sure. It's funky. I know 

Holly: raccoons, I think just they, one, they're really cute, but two, they, they're omnivores and I'm sorry if you hear some noise.

My pug is little 

Speaker 4: pup. 

Holly: Yeah. Running around. Yeah, so raccoon oh, so that brings us to a good point. I'm sure you guys have probably talked about this on the show before, but lots of, animals, depending on what their diet is, really affects the flavor of the meat. Oh yeah.

And so that's i, I think if you had a wild raccoon that was never exposed to the city life and wasn't eating like weak old hamburgers, out of trash cans, it might be pretty good. Yes. But a trapped raccoon from a city might not be. 

Chris: Nah, we don't want the garbage eaters.

Nah. Yeah, let's skip that. Let's let's switch to some more palatable topics here. Can you talk a little bit about how you met Adam and what went on at that production? 

Holly: Yeah, absolutely. Like I said, game Grill Gourmet. So one of the things that I do is I provide culinary experiences in the outdoor space.

So I'm not just like coming in like I'm not a ranch chef. I always tell people that. I'm like, I'm not coming just to cook your food. We're gonna, we're putting on an event.

Chris: So you do the hunt and then like the hunter would expect you to cook that meal like that night, like that? 

Holly: Is that what you mean by ranch?

No. No. A ranch chef is just somebody that comes in there like providing the service of feeding people at the ranch during a hunt. 

Speaker 3: Okay. 

Holly: Whereas opposed to as a private chef, I'm coming, I'm making a curated menu based on, it's more of an event type situation. 

Speaker 5: I gotcha. Gotcha. 

Holly: So I met Adam when we were filming for the Blood Origins India project and that was something that I was super excited to be included on because I have, if you go through my Instagram, I have quite an international flare to most everything that I do.

Yeah. Super fun. I have a very deep love of culture and history and all of these things. And so the India project is raising awareness about how India's, hunting has been outlawed since the seventies and their populations of, nail guy and black buck and all these things are coming back and trying to shed some light on, maybe the possibility of.

Getting hunting, reinstated, but that's, not exactly pertinent and I'm not an expert on that, so I'm not gonna speak too much on it. But Adam was Blood origins Jeff? Yeah. Yeah. Adam was filming on the filming on that show, and I got picked up because I had written an article.

For Houston Safari Club about a dish called Nega LA Moss. And so La Moss is a like a red curry. And ooh, it was traditionally called Jungley moss, which is a little bit more of a rustic variation of that dish. But it was made with wild game. And so after the seventies when hunting was outlawed in India they were no longer, could no longer make this dish.

There. But in the 1930s the government private ranchers brought the nail guy to Texas, to the King Ranch. And so they've since established a wild breeding population. And aside from tearing up fences and being in nuisance they haven't had, the devastating impact that some species that had been introduced, but they were brought in to feed the workers on the King Ranch and now have come become very synonymous with South Texas hunting culture.

Which the nail guy I served at that event was one that I shot. And it was really cool because it was a nail guy that was, and I butchered the whole thing, nose the tail. Which a whole no guy is that is some work, my friend.

Chris: So for the average Indiana guy sitting in front of you here it, tell me about Ane guy real quick.

Oh. Like I just had to Google it Yeah. To see what exactly, what it looked like. So they're gnarly looking things. 

Holly: They're really cool. They're so beautiful. Yeah. They're very hard to hunt. They're elusive. They have thick skin. Their vitals are in a different place than a white tail. They're a little bit lower, so you better.

They're very hard to shoot. And they don't come to feeders. They are truly like free range animals. You they're elusive and but they were brought here into Texas in the thirties from India like I mentioned, and to be a food source on the King Ranch. And they've just become, like I said, synonymous with the culture.

They're huge animals. They're, they weigh a lot. They can, they're like, honestly, they're like a very tall cow. Okay. Maybe have significantly talking 

Speaker 4: like elk. Elk size. 

Holly: Yeah. 

Speaker 4: Bigger, smaller, 

Holly: Yeah, maybe they're the largest species of Asian antelope. 

Speaker 3: Okay. 

Holly: Which is nil guy means blue bull in Hindi and, that's where there's a little bit of a cultural hangup is Blue Bull. The cow is sacred in that culture. But they're not cows at all. They're a species of antelope and they are delicious. It's truly one of my most favorite wild game. Meats to eat, but I got brought on the project because I was telling Robbie about it and how, it's you, it's so interesting to me that this dish in, its, in the form that it was intended to be consumed in, cannot be consumed in its native country because hunting has been outlawed.

But we can preserve that history here in Texas and 

Chris: that's beautiful. I like area

Holly: and that to me. It, it also it's, this isn't the only recipe that I've gone this deep in. I, there's a lot of depth to what I do 'cause I'm just a nerd. I love food. I love history. I love culture. I love science.

I love all of these things. All kind of work together to create the picture of what I, what I love, like when I make a dish, it's not just food. But with the, and it shouldn't 

Chris: be just food. Yeah. I lo I love that. 

Holly: Yeah. And so it was so cool because they had, there was a gentleman who they were bringing in from India to hunt here in Texas.

And his whole life he'd been eating La Moss, but he'd never had it with nga, which is native to his country until he came here. Oh man. That's how I, met Adam. And we had such a ball filming that, and it was so fun because I don't think anybody expected the dishes that, were coming out of the kitchen.

Chris: Yeah. 

Holly: But I had, wait, I've got 

Chris: a photo here. Is the, yeah. The dish you're talking about, is that the one that's like in the It's in a pot. 

Holly: Yeah. The pink le Crusade. If it's like red, 

Yeah. Yeah, 

Chris: with some coriander. I say coriander. 

Holly: Cilantro. Yeah. 

Chris: Yeah. Oh yeah. Super. It looks stunning.

It just looks hearty and 

Holly: it's so good. So I use the nail guy shank with that. And so for those no guy shanks, I don't know too many people that have a vertical bandsaw in their house, but I do. Yeah. That's always fun to tell people about. It's 

Speaker 5: helpful. Yeah. 

Holly: But I love doing an also BUCA cut because you get the exposure of the bone marrow.

Yes. 

Speaker 3: And like on an animal, like an 

Holly: elk or a bison or a nail guy, like you get some real, even an axis deer. Also native to India and brought here to Texas that are Oh, really? Okay. Yes. That is top, that's like the top three proteins for me is nail guy and axis. I think they're so good. 

Speaker 5: Okay. 

Holly: But yeah, so I had, I have a lot of fun with doing that and, I guess that kind of segues into how, like the creativity part of it. So like for me personally, I like to dive into the history of the animals, like where they're from. And even with whitetail, it's fun to me to go back and look at the recipes that people have made all over the country throughout the course of time for better or for worse.

And look at them and maybe give them a little bit new. New life. Here in Texas we have lots of exotic hunting because we have the South African conservation model. In a lot of places where they've, brought in some of these species that would otherwise be extinct in their native lands.

Chris: Yeah. Or inaccessible, like you said. Yeah. 

Holly: Or inaccessible. But really it's, deforestation is such a huge problem. But and then overpopulation and city urban sprawl, if I think that's the proper term. All of those things in a lot of places have led to the decline of many species especially the African species.

But here in Texas, they're figured out how to, breed them and do all that. And we won't touch too much on that 'cause I have, we wanna focus on the food, but it's cool. It's the, because I've gotten to cook such a variety of species of animals and I take so much inspiration from the cultures and these like places that they came from.

Yeah. And then even just touching on that, I was the executive chef at Glen Dean in New Zealand, in the south island. Nice. It's a super cool it's a hunting 17,000 acre hunting station. It is so beautiful. Highly recommend if you haven't been to New Zealand, pack all your stuff move, never come back.

Yeah. I'm just kidding. I've been 

Chris: lucky enough to go and I Oh, awesome. I got to the house I was staying at, like he was a hunter and he was like, yeah, hunting's, pretty easy, to do over here. Just yeah. Really no tags, like it's all invasive. Like you could just go 

Holly: Yeah.

Did, because everything, and I was like, 

Chris: oh man, how do we pull this off? Like in the four days I'm here it didn't work, but I'm dying to go back, man. It's a, it's just a stunning culture. Yes. The culture. Culture, the scenery, people. Oh, everything. It's worth the flight. Oh man. Yeah.

Get there From 

Holly: Texas. It's not too bad. It's only 14 hours to Auckland. 

Chris: It's only 14 hours on a plane.

It could be worse. 

Holly: It could be worse, but it's 

Speaker 4: worth it. I agree. It worth it. I 

Holly: think it's absolutely worth it. But what was cool about that? So you mentioned that all the species are invasive, so everything.

And New Zealand has been introduced, including the Red Stack, but the Himalaya and TAR is what I wanna talk about and drive my point home here. They were given as a gift to the Republic of New Zealand and they, inhabit the Himalayas. And so when I start thinking about dishes, I, like I said, I think about these animals and where they're.

Like native from. And one of the dishes I created that was on the menu routinely for appetizers was a Himalayan tar samosa because the flavors of that, like it's a very pungent meat, just play so beautifully with the bold, intense flavors of the Indian cuisine. 

But yeah, that's, it was such a.

I love, that's where I get the majority of my inspiration from is where did these animals come from? What are they doing? Like what flavors are very prominent in this culture? Because if you like, you know the saying, if it grows together, it goes together. That's, I 

Chris: literally just wrote that down.

Yeah. I wanna talk about that my just dive in a bit. So in my mind, my, 

Holly: yeah, in my mind I'm like. If this animal is from this area where this culture uses these flavors, there's no way that somebody at some point hasn't, 'cause nothing is new. And that's, I think what I right love about cooking and food and all that stuff is, while I do think there's a lot of innovation that happens, I actually think that everything has already been done before we just.

Haven't heard about it. So it's been 

Chris: done. But you haven't done it. Yes. Like you haven't put your spin on it yet For sure. So that's where it gets fun and creative. Oh yeah, 

Holly: for sure. And so circling back to what you were saying what was the topic you wanted to dive in off 

Chris: of? When it grows together, it goes together.

Oh, yes. So yeah, talking about I'm just kinda curious about yeah, if you made the same dish, the red curry meal guy. Swapping that out with a white tail easy. Like how is that gonna change things? I know, yeah, it might work, but like flavor-wise?

Holly: Flavor wise here's the thing is that's a pretty strong flavored dish and I think that it works well with all wild game proteins.

Like really the main difference is gonna be your cooking time. And that's gonna vary greatly depending on the age of your deer. But I think shanks are one of the most underrated cuts on an animal. Crazy and they're my 

Chris: crazy good. Yeah. Favorite. Definitely one of my favorites for sure. 

Holly: But yeah, so I think with like whitetail or antelope or any of those species it, this is one of those dishes that would work interchangeably.

And I, that's one of the things about my recipes is most everything is interchangeable with another type of. Protein. So like when I write a venison recipe, like I write it for, venison because I've probably made it with whitetail. It's not very frequently that I have a bunch of nail guy laying around.

So pretty much everything is developed with with a variety of proteins. And people would just be shocked by how beautifully all of the flavors, work together. 

Chris: Yeah. Another question about the diet of animals. 'cause you've heard that saying too you are what you eat.

But you are what you eat. Eats. So the diet of the Neil guy, like I'm curious about how that's changed, like in the native habitat, like what are they munching on over there in Texas? What are they munching on? Do you think there's like a big grasses, 

Change in the flavor?

Like if you were to actually get, 

Holly: I don't know. I don't have enough data to like. Confirm. I've never had no guy from India no, they are omnivores, so they eat like grass and hay and maybe not hay, 

Chris: but mentioned. It'd be similar, but yeah. So I, I'm thinking I would imagine 

Holly: that it would be very similar.

It's not like you have like a deer that's eating sage and then you have, they're eating. That's exactly what I was gonna refer 

Chris: to. Yeah. It's

Holly: I don't think it's, but I could be wrong. You don't 

Chris: think it'd be quite that drastic? 

Holly: I don't know. I it. I really don't know. 

Chris: When they open it back up, we'll have to do that test and yeah.

Holly: No, absolutely. I would love to do that test. 

Chris: Yeah. Robbie, when he get hunting back in India, yeah. Let us know. We'll do a comparison. Yes. What else were you guys cooking that week? You said you did a number of dishes and I've got a few more photos here, so I wanna see. We did 

Holly: a ton of really cool stuff.

So one of the things I also like to keep in mind is when I'm planning. Menus is I like to have like themes for my menus.

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Holly: And so on the second night I wanted to do traditional Tex-Mex, but with an Indian flair. One of my mentors, he's a Michelin Stard chef.

He's incredible and he does such an amazing job of combining the, like the flavors because like really they use a lot of the same. Spices and. And fla. Sorry about that. They use a lot of the same spices and flavors and things like that, just in different varying quantities. Sure. But that menu was so fun.

I I really wanted to capture because all these people were coming to Texas for the first time or if it wasn't their first time, I just think that getting Tex-Mex is you have to do it. So I wanted to, and really this all came about because I wanted to incorporate queso into the menu.

Like because here, so I know that like chips and queso in some places is not. I don't know. I've heard that it's different because they're like is it just gonna be like melted cheese with chips? And I'm like, it's not Velv Vita. I'm like, no, it's, we're not. No, it's not like that. Queso is a whole culture here in Texas.

But I did a Sikh kebab queso, which is it's a very strongly flavored kebab type that is very popular as a street food in India. And it's delicious. It's heavy on the cumin seed. It just pairs really well with that. And then I, instead of serving it with chips, I served it with garlic non, so yes I had so much fun, like making this Mexican inspired, like Mexican Indian Fusion of a menu. I don't even know if I remember everything that I made. But let's see. So there was the C kebab queso.

Chris: You gotta, I don't think I have that photo. I have a photo of the non, which looks beautiful. 

Holly: Yeah. And 

Chris: I've made that once and it was, 

Holly: it's hard an experience.

Yeah, for sure. It was an experience and it's really one of those things, it came out 

Chris: really tasty. 

Holly: It's hard to get if you don't have a tando, like you just cannot mimic or okay, so technically a green egg is, you could probably do it on a green egg. But. Let's see, what else did I make?

Man I can't even remember. There were so many dishes I know that we made like the final course that I did was a butter alligator, so like butter chicken. But I muted into a tortilla 

Chris: okay. I think that's what I was, the little sandwich looking thing here. 

Holly: Yeah. That's what that is. And then I know I'm, I 

Chris: got, there's some tacos with onions and more cilantro.

Holly: Oh yeah. I did a I think I did an access quesadilla. For sure. 

Speaker 4: Oh, that's right here. Yep. 

Holly: Yeah. So I tried to serve a lot of different variety of things, and then of course, like rice and beans, but instead of doing like regular rice, I did a riff on risotto,

Speaker 3: Ooh. Yeah. 

Holly: With a Pico de Gao risotto.

It was really good.

Chris: Yeah. That's incredible. 

Holly: Yeah, it was that was such a fun project. I'm like, man, I need to go through my notes and be with that. I can't even remember all the things that. 

Chris: Just gotta wait for that blood origin video to launch and you can Yeah. Fully remember. 

Holly: And that's how it works for me, is I have so many ideas, like all the time.

I have so much fun coming up with dishes and just coming up with dishes and brainstorming and, yeah. Here is the menu. Found it? Yes. So it was Black Book Carne Asada NGA Carnita Bites, and then I did the Axis Queso. And then, I did butter alligator tga, so chicken tga. Ooh. Yeah. So I used similar spices with that, but combined it with the flavors of the butter chicken. Oh my gosh.

And that's funny that I have to go back to it. It's funny that I have to go back. It's been a couple days. Yeah. Yeah, it's been a few weeks. And then I've just had so much going on since then. And then for dessert, I did a mango lossy lime tart and. Ooh, so more 

Chris: confident with the mango this time around.

Holly: Oh yeah, definitely more confident with the mango. It was funny. It's always now I'm all insecure about cutting mangoes. No, I'm just kidding. I actually went and I started but that was such a great experience for me because that was the thing that I felt like really did like the feedback that they gave me to work on were things that I felt like, I also needed to work on, so it really gave me a good basis to go back and work on some of those, like fine tuning of certain skills. 

Chris: Sure. Yeah. That's super fun. Yes. Adam does a phenomenal job capturing everything, so I'm excited for you to get your hands on that gallery. I'm so excited to see it, know if and when they publish that, so yeah, they, they, like I said, they do a great job capturing everything.

Just, the emotions, the actual the presentation of you, like talking about the dish and then actual food and like I said, there's there. Yeah. I'm excited for you to take a peek at that gallery and, put some of those shots to, to use Scott because it's such a fun.

Yeah. I think you've seen it thing to capture, 

Holly: seen some of those photos quicker than I have. I don't think I've seen any of 'em. 

Chris: I know some people. Yeah. I got my tricks. Yeah. Stunning presentation. Yeah. I just look super fun. But yeah, I love, love, love like that culture mix in and just, representing the country in the best way possible and, using all the.

Authentic ingredients, like really makes a big difference 

Speaker 4: for sure. I know 

Chris: like it's getting meal guys not something that everybody can do. Yeah. But finding a similar enough protein and trying it yourself I think was, is definitely No, for sure. 

Holly: And I, and that's I think honestly an area where I disagree with a lot of a lot of popular.

Influence right now. I think that do the best with what you have. I think that there shouldn't be, like, there's just certain, I'm so fortunate I live not far from the Houston area, so I can get any spices, I can get, anything that my heart desires is, a little bit of an investigation away, but not every town in the United States is like that.

And you just and I am always conscious of that when I write recipes as I try to provide, alternatives and tips and tricks and things like that. Because I think when we get so caught up on maybe the making something so authentic, you almost, you can almost trap yourself a little bit.

Oh, a hundred 

Speaker 4: percent. Yeah. 

Holly: And just, like I said, doing the best with what you have and what you can get your hands on, I think is the most important. 

Chris: Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. It's it's intimidating. I mean it. If you're like me, you don't really know what you're doing in the kitchen quite yet.

You've got this cookbook and it says, oh, I need to use X, Y, Z to cook this. If I don't have Y, what do I do? I'm just not gonna cook that dish. 

Holly: Yeah, 

Chris: and this is exactly where Andy would present. Oh, you need the flavor Bible? Yes. Do you have this book? 

Holly: Yes, I do. 

Chris: Okay. Yeah. I still don't own a copy. I need to just order it.

But yeah, the flavor Bible yeah, a hundred percent is going to give you that comparison. Hey, if I don't have Y, here's something else that's similar or just learning more about each ingredient 

Holly: for sure. And give you the 

Chris: tools to know hey. I can substitute this with that and it'll be 

Holly: close.

Yeah, absolutely. And like Google is also great for that. AI is also great for, there is Google. Yes.

Chris: Most of us have Google. Yes. 

Holly: So yeah, use the resources that you have. That's, I'll always advocate for that, but I do think some of my best dishes have come from me not having things because it'll either be like, no, I don't wanna take the time to go to the store to get one ingredient or.

Yeah. I'm, 

Chris: or you have to buy a pound of it. Yeah. And it's gonna go bad before you use it all. 

Holly: Absolutely. And so there's also that. But yeah, no, that's finding things that are good, similar swaps and just, using critical thinking when you're cooking and just that yeah. Is, I think it really, but it's also 

Chris: your.

It's your spin on the dish as well. Yeah, for sure. So's it's your flavor memories coming in to influence the final dish, and ultimately it's gonna be something that, that you like better. 

Holly: Yeah.

Chris: Give or take, a couple fail the tank and it's personalized in your, 

Holly: In your kitchen to you and you're like.

And I honestly think that gives people so much confidence in the kitchen. They're like I tried this recipe from Game Girl Gourmet and I didn't have this, but I used this and it was so good. 

Speaker 3: Yeah. 

Holly: And like it, I think recipes should be like a jumping off point. They don't have to be the final destination.

Speaker 3: Yes. They're the 

Holly: framework and while while I think that it is important to. Try a recipe as closely as you can to understand how it works. I also think when you're a home cook, it's like it's more important that you have fun and enjoy the process and not stress about it.

Chris: Yes. I love that you said that. Like I love this whole mentality. Yeah. The chopped mentality. Yeah. Just use what you have. 

Holly: For sure. Make it your own. I love it. And I think that's, there's a certain time and place for being stressed out about it. Or doing things in a certain perfection type way.

And home is not the place without, especially with wild game. It's wild. You didn't like, you just enjoy it, honor it, have fun. 

Chris: Yeah. Yeah, the kitchen is also a wild place. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. 

Holly: I can't imagine how wild it up it would be if you had a couple kids running around your feet.

I don't have any 

Chris: It, it makes it more challenging. Yes. I've heard all, I've seen all the memes on Instagram Hey, this needs to be the next challenge of just trying to cook dinner with the toddler. 

Speaker 3: I can't even imagine. That is 

Chris: help. That is helping air quotes. Yes. That's a game show I would watch and it would stress me out because it's too real.

Yes. Real quick here, before we, we run outta time I'm just thinking about, cooking for the camera versus cooking for just people. Do you approach that differently or is it the exact same? Like when you were on Chopped, like obviously it has to look good, if you're cooking for Adam.

Yeah. You want it to look really good for the video and the camera versus like when you're just cooking for friends or family like 

Holly: I think for me, like I think everything. I, there's, okay, there's a difference right? Between making something look good and some very technical plating. So I've, worked in restaurants where we had a team of 30 people we were putting out, and insane number of dishes. And there was like 10 components to garnish, right? You're not doing that at home. 

But that doesn't mean your food can't be beautiful per se. Sure. I think rustic food is beautiful and in its own, way. But in terms of cooking for the camera versus, cooking for friends and family, I think there's a little bit less, like less pressure for things to be perfect. Like when you're cooking on camera, it can be a little stressful because you're worried is my technique right? Am I like saying the right things? Did I say diced when I meant like mint? What, because I think with social media and stuff, you're always like, you're like, I'm gonna get called out.

Or, whatever. But I think the main difference between like cooking cooking on camera versus cooking for your friends is just. I don't know, relaxing and having fun for me. I film a lot of content. I put out a lot of content and 

Chris: you do. That's super fun. 

Holly: I have so much fun with it.

Like I, I've got. I'm about to calculate the mileage that I've driven since April and I'm scared. But in terms of food content, like I'm always filming everything. So for me it's it's the same I think, but for most people, when you're doing like structured time, there's just, versus unstructured, there's just no stress.

It's easier. You can just flow and have that process to when you're like thinking of things, oh, I'm gonna add this. Oh, I'm gonna add that. Whereas when you're on camera trying to teach or on camera, for in those, in that kind of capacity, you really do have to have things like thought through.

Yeah, but for me, I share both. So like when I am concepting a dish or working through something for a publication, I love to record it and be like, Ooh, I, and what people like, really they are getting. The very real version of what is happening in my kitchen. But I think people also have a misconception that like being like a professional is super, like a professional chef is super professional and it is, there's a lot of technical things that happen.

There is, there's something to be said when you're like 20 minutes from service and you're like, hail marrying with a sauce because your original plan didn't work out like that stuff happens Yes. In a professional setting, just like it happens at home. 

Chris: Talk about but just keeping it real, I think is fun and but also like on the professional side, like you want it to look really good.

Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. Kinda like the 

Chris: McDonald's burger menu. Noah food stylist did a really cool video of why do the menu photos look like this and the actual product look like this. Yeah. It's because. When you photograph an item, like you wanna see the pickles, you wanna see the onions, ketchup, mustard, yada yada.

If you were to eat that sandwich, yeah, that first couple bites would be really good. 

Holly: Yeah. But 

Chris: then there's nothing else on the rest. 

Holly: Oh yeah, for sure. Versus when 

Chris: you eat something, you want all the ingredients to be equally dispersed and whatnot.

Holly: For sure. That's a good point. And so like, when you're doing, but for me, when I'm doing food photography, I try to make things as they would be eaten.

Chris: Yeah. 

Holly: So when you see

Chris: yeah. Two, two sides of a different coin. Yeah, 

Holly: for sure. And then I always try to make sure all of my food, because all of my clients wanna take pictures. All of my food has to look beautiful no matter what. But like I said, it doesn't have to be. Like the perfectly glossy, it doesn't have to be like 10 different components to be a beautiful dish.

It can just be like. Rice in a beautiful, excuse me, beautiful Venice and Curry with, some coriander leaves on top to give that beautiful color variation. 

Chris: Yeah. Yeah. I'll be honest you're a bad person to ask that question too, because

Speaker 3: probably 

Chris: you're make, you're making pretty food for people.

Like I said who wants photos of it? So so everything you do is being photographed. Whereas the stuff I'm doing I was 

Speaker 3: like, man, 

Chris: My kids don't care what it looks like. Does it smell good? I'm gonna eat it. Oh, man. Right in. Yeah. If you have tips and tricks on making your toddler's food look gorgeous, man.

Kids scare me to 

Holly: death. Kids are the hardest as they should. Kids, they're so tricky. I'm so much more terrified. I would rather cook for a panel of Michelin star chefs than cook for five children. You'd rather be un chopped again. He, yeah, in a bad way. Kids scare me to death. They're 

Speaker 5: that there's another game show right there.

It's, yeah. No kidding. It's chopped actually. 

Holly: I love that. 

Speaker 5: But toddlers are the judges. 

Holly: I love that idea so much. Like what a humbling experience. Yes. Make that for people. I'm gonna make something these kids love. Actually, this is funny. I worked for a ranch one time who they were like always make something simple.

There's gonna be a lot of kids make spaghetti. And I was like. And I told them, I said, you, what you don't understand is a lot of kids cannot deal with tomatoes because the, it's true. The acidity is too much for their palate. And sure enough, yeah, I, and I had bought chicken, like I, I guess I had brought with me some like chicken nuggets to throw in the air fryer.

'cause I was like, okay, I'm gonna do exactly what you guys told me to do. Fettuccine would've been a much better option. But sure enough, those kids would not eat that. And I made the pasta from scratch, made the bolognese, all that. It didn't offend me. 'cause I was right. Because kids literally just scared me.

Chris: Literally just last night we gave my kids, it wasn't spaghetti, it was like some curly looking noodle. But yeah, tomato sauce, super basic zero flavors outside of just basic marinara from. I don't know the brand. Basic marinara. My oldest five-year-old took a bite and he's ah, it's too spicy.

And we're like, dude, it's tomatoes. Yeah. There's nothing in there. 

Holly: The pallets are just so sensitive and not developed yet. Yeah. So like anything can be overwhelming to kids. Yeah. 

Chris: And I think that one of us just, it was like, and he didn't know what he was experiencing, so it was probably just a little too acidic for him.

Yeah. At the moment. 

Holly: My, yeah, just my favorite. It's spicy. 

Chris: Everything is spicy. 

Holly: So I'm working on, right now, I'm working on working on getting my A PDF cookbook finished this week. But one of the things that I talk about is I made a fried, a dove fried rice in the book, and that I talk about in the intro because this book also follows my journey from the very first recipe I ever wrote to now and, one of the recipes that's in the middle is it's a dove fried rice, and I love fried rice as a introductory dish for all people of all ages with wild game because it's easily identifiable. People know what fried rice is. Yeah. The flavors are not overly complex. It's easy to make. It comes together quickly.

It's such a good, it's such a good introductory dish. And then kids love fried rice, so yeah. But it's so funny how certain things just completely overwhelm them. But adults are that way too. 

Chris: Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know several adults who are pickier than my kids. 

Holly: Yeah. That's something 

Chris: another, that's another fun episode.

We'll record later on. Yeah. Yeah. For how to cook for picky people, 

Holly: how to cook for children. I actually think that would be a cool, I don't have kids, but I've cooked for my client's kids and cooking for my nieces and nephews all the time. 

Chris: Yeah, keep it basic 

Holly: for sure. 

Chris: Keep it mac and cheese. 

Holly: I don't know about that.

I think there's a way to to do it. You just gotta make it familiar. It's the same thing with adults who are like leery about eating wild game. You just have to serve it to them in in a way that that is comfortable for them. 

Chris: Exactly. Yeah. And that's tricky. Yeah. 'cause you have to know 'em.

Yeah. And I can't imagine like being in your position like. I would say, rarely do you know the person you're cooking

Holly: for sure. It's always different. I spend a lot of time talking to my clients though, and trying to get their get their, vision. Understood. And I think that's where, I also like where there's a distinction between I'm coming in to cook food on the ranch, or I'm coming in as Chef Holly from Game Girl Gourmet.

We're providing an experience. Yeah. So it's getting to the root of that. 

Chris: Awesome. That's super cool. Yeah it's almost it's like taking, head shots, of somebody you gotta figure 'em out real quick. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Okay what can I say to make this individual smile?

Holly: Yeah, for sure. Is their 

Chris: smile good? Do they want a serious photo? Like how do we, how do capture that personality perfectly? It's almost the exact same with cooking. Like, how do you read somebody almost? Yes. How do you capture in the, a week before alright, how do I. How do I understand your food preferences and your food history And 

Holly: yes.

Plan a menu around, how are you gonna take 

Chris: all this? 

Holly: Yeah. 'cause a lot of people are very picky. Yeah. 

Chris: So crazy. I like it. Yeah. We'll we'll have to do another episode. We're running low on time here. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Like developing menus, like that's crazy. We early on in the show we had an episode on neglecting side dishes because as hunters ing as just your very average standard male, like protein, we got the protein figured out.

What are we gonna eat with that? I don't know. It's chopped. Yeah. What's in the fridge? What do cooking We cook. Don't overthink it. Five minutes. Yes. Rice. Rice. Yeah. 

Holly: Back strapp of rice, but actually developing something. Pan sauce. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, but yeah, 

Chris: developing something and planning something, a whole 

Holly: meal.

Chris: Yeah. Learning how to do that better I think would be very beneficial for me. And I'm assuming a lot of my listeners, so 

Holly: Yeah, I definitely think that's, we'll come back a guy thing for sure. 

Chris: It probably is. I'm not, no arguing there. One track mind over here, guys. Hey with the last few minutes we have here, do you wanna tell people where we can find you?

And I think you already mentioned it. Yeah. Your Instagram predominantly. Absolutely. Maybe

Holly: instagram and Facebook. You can also, go check out my website, game girl gourmet.com. Sign up for my newsletter. I put out recipes. Yes. Guaranteed to get some recipes through that newsletter. And also just be up to date on all of my projects coming out.

I'm gonna be releasing a, the Cookbook. Come see yeah. Releasing a Digital Cookbook here in the next week or so ahead of Dove season. But yeah, so just keep up with me and then I love to answer questions. I love to interact with people, so if you ever have questions about cooking or any of those things, please, don't hesitate to reach out to me.

Yes. I run really hard all the time and, but it's so fun and I'm always lit always thinking of new dishes to make. So if you ever have an idea for a dish that you wanna see and you're not sure how to approach it, definitely shoot me those ideas. 'cause I love to take ideas from the audience and be like, somebody suggested that I make wild pork Char CU, which is like a Chinese.

Barbecue pork it and I was like, that's a great idea. Let's do that. I love absolutely perfect. I love when people reach out to me like that. 

Chris: Super cool. And you're based in Texas, right? You said around Houston, correct? 

Holly: I am. I am based in the Galveston area. So close to Houston.

Do you travel? Yes, I go everywhere. Have nice social travel. So 

Chris: let's say we have an event here in Indiana that we need to cook for. Yeah. You'll come out 

Holly: Absolutely. If you need somebody to come tell a story with your food and talk to you. I do a lot of a lot of that. And then I also do a lot of ladies events too, awesome. Lots of ladies hunting field, the table, 

Chris: stuff like that. Super cool. Yeah. Listeners, if you need to cook. You got one. You know how to find her, Holly. Wow. Game Girl Gourmet. Yes. All the links we'll put below. So yeah, definitely check out the feed. I'm a hundred percent gonna check out that chopped episode 'cause like huge fan of the show.

Like I wanna see you. See you in action. I wanna see you sweating over that mango, 

Holly: Oh gosh. Thank you. So you're never gonna live that down. I know. Thank you so much for having me on. It's been so fun to. To chat. Morning. Thank you so much for 

Chris: being here. And yeah, a hundred percent we'll be back to chat more and like I cannot wait.

I'm gonna keep my eyes peeled on blood origins. Yeah, I wanna see that story. Just the culture is beautiful. Like I love Yeah, you're preserving that history, in that dish and like really treating it and I appreciate that and I think it's beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much though.

We'll be in touch soon. Yeah, awesome. Go check Holly, the app and yeah, if you see your name on the menu, go eat there. 

Holly: Yeah, for sure. 

Chris: Alright, bye now.