Ep082 - Why you like the bourbon you like with dan kidd
Bourbon Tasting with Dan Kidd: Proof, Aging, Barrel Picks, and Pairings
Brought to you by The Beautiful and the Damned Whiskey House
Chris Whonsetler hosts Dan Kidd on the Okayest Cook Podcast for a whiskey-focused episode centered on how personal taste shapes what people enjoy. They share recent food and drink highlights, including Dan’s Wyoming camp-cooked steak paired with a 2016 E.H. Taylor Seasoned Wood and Chris’s first Rev event at the Speedway. Dan, a personal trainer and whiskey content creator, explains tasting basics for high-proof bourbon—nosing technique, taking small first sips, the “neck pour,” letting bottles breathe, and how a few drops of water can open flavors. They sample Dan’s “Chugs” MGP single barrels, Jack Daniel’s 14 Year, The Beautiful & Damned “The Last Lion,” and Peerless 10 Year, discussing aging, warehouse effects, and finish. They also cover food pairings, cooking with alcohol, hangover prevention, bottle oxidation/storage, infinity bottles, and practical advice for buying whiskey by trying samples and finding trusted palates.
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Chris: Last call. Questions, comments, concerns? You ready?
Dan: I like to start every podcast with a drink. Yes.
Chris: We'll, we'll get there. We'll get there. All right. All right. Come on, man.
Dan: Sorry, I'm
Chris: Trying to collect my thoughts there
Welcome back to Okayest Cook Podcast. I'm your host, Chris Whonsetler, here with a unique episode. Today, we are not talking about food necessarily, but I've been digging into the, the food science a little bit more. I've got a couple really rad books behind me that I still have not read as much as I would've wanted to by now.
Kenji is another-- or he's one awesome food science author that I'm in love with. And Harold McGee wrote On Food and Cooking. And Harold, in his book, said that drinks are food. So we're gonna talk about drinking today. I've got Dan Kidd here at the table, and we're gonna talk about bourbon.
Dan: Let's talk about some whiskey, man.
Chris: Bourbon, whiskey, all the things. Yeah. Um, I know dangerously little about it all. I know I like it.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: But outside of that, like, I'm still trying to learn. So, so I'm hoping, uh, you're gonna teach me a few things here, educate me a little bit on mostly your preferences, because what I know about bourbon is, well, all food in general, is it is very specific to you as an individual.
Dan: Oh, yeah.
Chris: I like stuff you're not gonna like, vice versa.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: So it is a very personal experience. So all the questions I'm gonna ask you today are just your, your world view, uh, your food history, your drink history, your personal preferences, and we're gonna take your preferences and just combine them with our experiences and we're gonna test some things that you tell us, and we'll decide later if we like them or not, so.
Dan: And I, actually, I like that you started like that, 'cause drinking is a very, it's a very personalized... Like I, you know, me and my buddies, uh, drink a lot, um, together. Uh, there's certain things that, you know, we, we both like and, you know, we might have another friend that doesn't like that, and that's fine.
You know? Yeah. Everyone's got their own little variances. You know, I've got a buddy who likes really funky, weird stuff. Yes. Like, and I can taste it, and I can be like, "This isn't for me, but I know you're gonna love that." So it's all, it's all so, it is so personal. I need some of his
Chris: recommendations.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: 'Cause my, my palate is, like, on that funky side. On the funky side, yeah. Like, I like the blue cheeses, I like the- Mm-hmm ... just the, the really peaty scotches and black coffees, like, all the flavors, like, really aggressive flavors- Yeah ... that fight back.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Which is why I like some bourbons.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: So yes. Well, uh, let's start out real quick with, um, notable meals.
Have you eaten anything cool lately? Oh,
Dan: man.
Chris: Yeah. Or w- we, drinks to food, so- ... if it's, uh, don't spoil anything that's coming up later this episode, but, um, you know, drinks count.
Dan: Well, I, I, I did just get back from, uh, Wyoming, and I mean, and we just, we just got done talking about that, you know? Yes. And we, we roasted a steak right on a skillet right there.
Chris: Check the socials if you haven't.
Dan: Yeah, right there in the mountains. Uh, Whiskey With a View, um, I was with him on the, uh, Wilder Hearts, uh, YouTube channel. So doing all that. And I think, you know, the... We, we were talking about this on the podcast, too, you know, what's, what's your favorite whiskey? What's your favorite food?
And I think it's, you know, obviously the, the, the food's good, the whiskey's good, but it's more about the experience that you're having- Yeah ... who you're sharing it with. Yeah. And that makes so much more of a difference, you know? 'Cause I can have the best whiskey and the best steak and the best XYZ myself, you know, by myself at home, but- Yeah
I, I mean, it's, it's still enjoyable, but it's a lot better if I can, you know, look across the table and see somebody else there, so. I'm gonna say that's probably, that's definitely gonna stand out as one of my probably top three meals, like, just in general. That's gorgeous, yeah. I mean, the vie- view of the mountains, we had the lake, we had the, the smell of the fire from the firewood that I chopped, and the, the ta- the, the taste from the steak.
And I mean, it was, everything was just perfection.
Chris: Yes, yes. And I imagine, like, if you drink the, those exact same whiskeys in the future- Mm-hmm ... like, your mind's just gonna go straight back to that campsite.
Dan: Exactly. It's gonna pull you right back- That is gorgeous ... into that, that spot. Yes. So, you know, we, we opened a really nice bottle.
It was a, a 2016 E. H. Taylor Seasoned Wood. Um, so a, an expensive bottle that I'd been hanging on for a while, and you know, we, we drank it then, and then I, I wanted to go back the next day and see if I enjoyed it even more. Okay. I, in fact, did. It was a- It was, it was awesome. But a- again, like you said, it took me right back.
Yes. I love that. So it was, it was such a good-
Chris: Dude, yeah, food memories are so strong.
Dan: Oh, yeah.
Chris: And especially when you get into something like, like bourbon that has such- Mm ... a intense aroma as well. Like, that just, like it's, you're amplifying the senses that much more- Oh, yeah ... because it's so intense. Um, I, my notable meal is, it happened a while ago, but I haven't talked about it yet.
But I went to Rev for the first time. Have you been?
Dan: I've, uh, I have not been to Rev, but I've, I've, I've had some of the food from the, uh, the artists that have- Yeah ... created it, so yeah. Like,
Chris: all the best food artists- Yeah ... in town, like- Yeah ... are there at this one event. Mm-hmm. It's at the Speedway. Super cool.
But like, they have the, there's an epicurean tent with, like, all my favorite chefs are right there. And gosh, I don't know if I could pull out one specific dish. Um, I mean, Bode had some dynamite little shrimps that, that they were giving out. Mm. And, um, Yusuf made some, like, little Keurig type, like, uh, chocolate, the way he does.
So like, you had to peel it open like a little, um, like a coffee pod, and just, like, eat it out of that.
Dan: I feel bad eating his stuff, 'cause it's- It's
Chris: so pretty. Yeah ... it's so pretty. But it tastes way better than it looks. It tastes so good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. But, um, but no, that was a super, super cool experience.
So if, if you listeners have not been to Rev, what is it? Is it IU, IU Health puts it on? It's, like, their main fundraiser, I believe.
Dan: I believe
Chris: so. Um, I was there shooting photos and eating food. Yeah. So I, and it's the first one I've ever been to. It's, it's always been on my list, like, "Hey, I need to go to this event somehow."
Um, so look it up if you like what they do. They're, it's a beautiful event, just so cool. Yeah, out there at the tracks. Yeah. Tons of cool people, tons of cool drinks, and just so much food. Like, way more food than you could possibly eat. So onto the episode here, let's talk about you real fast. Can you give us, like, a...
And then we'll, we'll dive in here a little bit. Uh-huh. Uh, give us, like, a, the two-minute Dan Kidd bio.
Dan: Oh, man. Uh- Where do
Chris: you come from? Where are you going?
Dan: Let's see. I work too much, I drink too much- ... and I sleep too little. Um, no, I, uh, I'm a personal trainer, I own a push- personal training studio downtown Indy.
Um, I also do, say, content creation, like whiskey creation. Yum. So I work with, you know, different brands, uh, work with different restaurants, and just trying to push fun and exciting whiskey stuff out to the out to the world. Um, and then Yeah. I just kind of have some fun here and there.
Chris: Just having fun.
Yeah. That's
Dan: the way
Chris: to do
Dan: it. Just having fun.
Chris: Yeah. Well, it's, it's authentic. Like, I love your content. Yeah. It's, it's fun, it's genuine.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: And you're just, you're a rad guy.
Dan: Yeah. Thanks. Um,
Chris: we, we, we met, I think for the first time ever at the, at Pizza Fest last year. Is that right?
Dan: Yes. Yeah, yeah,
Chris: yeah. Um- Pizza
Dan: Fest
yeah,
Chris: another super, super cool event. Uh-huh. Um, part two's coming up
Dan: super soon. I th- I think it's gonna be, I th- it'll be even better, um, than the first one. Yeah, I'm looking forward to that one. Yes. Uh, Oct- it's in October. I believe October, yeah. It's at the fairgrounds too, so I
Chris: think- Well, it's in combination with, uh, World Food.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Which is another- Yeah ... crazy cool event, so.
Dan: So the venue's gonna be better. I know the planning's gonna be a lot better too- Yes, yes ... so it should be, it should be a good time.
Chris: Yes. More, more, more elbow room, I think so. Yeah. I had a blast.
Dan: Uh-huh.
Chris: I mean, I met you. It was super cool, so.
Dan: I had a, I was carrying around a bottle of, uh, I believe it was, uh, a Shanks.
Okay. A Michter's, uh, a Shanks, so that was-
Chris: I'll have to look back through the archives. I don't remember. It was delicious.
Dan: Yeah, that was- Whatever you gave me ... that was kind of fun, just kind of walking around with a bottle- Yes ... pouring drinks for people, so.
Chris: I mean, you're kind of notorious for just walking around with a bottle, right?
Yeah.
Dan: So. Yeah, I mean, you bring your, you bring your own fun. Whiskey, whiskey makes it better.
Chris: Yes, yes. Well, on that note, I, I have two hopefully cool bottles. Mm-hmm. Um, I'm hoping you haven't tried either of these before. Okay. But the odds of me finding a bottle that you have not tried- ... are dangerously-
Dan: Uh-huh
Chris: low. So do you want me to go first, or do you wanna go first?
Dan: Um, why don't, uh, let's... I tell you what, let's warm up our palate, 'cause I've got- Warm up, okay ... so I'll, I'll- Well,
Chris: te- teach us. Yeah, teach us what to go here ...
Dan: I'll talk a little bit more about me.
Chris: Yes. Yes, please.
Dan: So, um, I've actually got my own whiskey.
This
Chris: is yours.
Dan: It's, uh- Oh,
Chris: I was gonna ask about that.
Dan: So this is the, I don't know where you wanna put this, this is the Chugs. Um, this is the 4.0 version. Um, so during COVID, um, I did a, a culmination with Big Red. So we did, uh- Yes ... I was famous for chugging whiskey. Uh- ... which was fun, um, in its own right. I, I don't quite do that anymore.
There's a time and a
Chris: place
Dan: for that, yeah. There's a time and a place for everything. But, um, yeah, so now we're onto the, uh, fourth rendition of my bottle. So this is a five, it's an almost six-year MGP. Um, they bottled this down in Bloomington. Um, so- May I? Yeah, certainly. So we actually have two different versions of it.
This is sick. So there's a- Who did the
Chris: art?
Dan: Um, oh man, the local... Oh, he's gonna kill me. Aaron. Is it
Chris: Gamehorn?
Dan: Yes. Yes. Yep. So I was gonna say- Okay. I was gonna say, I was gonna say ... I was gonna say, he does a lot of the stuff for, uh, Apogee.
Chris: I, first of all, I love Aaron.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: And-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: there's, uh, it, it, it, spoiler, like, there's gonna be a cool segue later on, uh, because of Aaron.
Dan: Mm-hmm. Yeah, he d- he, he does- Love this ... some really, really cool stuff. Um, so we've got a 114 version and a 116 version. Oh, sick. And my favorite part.
Chris: Yes, sir.
Dan: Oh, man. Look at that ASMR. So whichever one you wanna pour up first. We should probably start lighter- Right ... 114. I mean, it's not-
Chris: Dude, I'm just into the art
Dan: two proof points
Chris: So I, I will say my, my taste in all spirits-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: stems around the artwork.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: If it's a beautiful bottle- It's
Dan: gonna
Chris: draw you in ... I'm gonna buy it.
Dan: It's gonna draw you in, yeah.
Chris: If it's the most gorgeous bourbon in the world- Mm ... and it has an ugly label, like- ... I'll walk right past it every day- Yeah
until somebody, you know, shows it to me.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Before we decide here- Mm-hmm ... how, how are we drinking this? 'Cause I've got, I got two little options here. Yeah. Um, my wife and I did our first trip to bourbon country- Uh-huh ... the other day, a couple weeks ago, and, um, I discovered Whiskey Thief.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Super awesome brewery.
Uh, they gave me this little, little cup. It's not a, it's not a Glencairn, is it? Uh-uh. That's scotch. It's
Dan: still a-
Chris: What, what do you call this?
Dan: It's... So that's, so all, all the little cups like that, Glencairn's just a specific brand. Oh, okay. So it's probably one of the more famous brands. It's a whiskey cup, right?
As long as it's... Yeah, it's a whiskey, it's a whiskey glass.
Chris: So I've got that, and then I've got just little shot glasses. Ooh. So is there-
Dan: Why don't you take the- ... a right way to drink this? Why don't you... Ah, there's, there's no wrong way to drink it- ... as long as you're drinking. Um, so yeah, and that's, that's the thing, you know- I
Chris: got, I got a lot of these, so-
Dan: We'll just, we'll
Chris: just- You better bring a cup.
I
Dan: got you ... we'll do, um, well you, you can do the glass and I'll do the shot. I
Chris: should have brought like a proper like crystal
Dan: sip cup. I sh- I've got a... Man, I get sent these all the time. I've got a ton of them. Um, I got a few in my truck, but- That's for, that's for another time. Should have brought them. Um, yeah.
Why don't, uh, why don't you, you use the glass- Okay ... and I'll use the... I'll, I'll take a shot, yeah. Um- Yes, sir. So there's no real wrong way, um, to enjoy a whiskey. Mm-hmm. I'll just, I'll pour some out and I'll let you pour. Yeah. I would do, um, just a little bit.
Chris: I'll get this guy here then.
Dan: Yeah. Or here we'll- So this is, um- Let's, let's drink the same one- Okay, yeah
'cause they're... So it's, it's two different barrels. So these are single barrel picks that, um, that I- Yeah, that's- I believe that's the 114. These
Chris: are f- full, full strength, yeah?
Dan: Yep. So do, yeah. So these are barrel, barrel proof. Um, so normally, um, I like to teach people, so when you go in, there's a lot of alcohol in these and we just- Oh, dude, I can
Chris: smell it already
Dan: we just popped it. Yes. So if you stick your nose right in and go for it, don't do that. It's gonna, it's gonna singe your nose hairs. You're gonna be like, "Oh, that's, that's alcohol."
Chris: All those esthers.
Dan: Uh-huh.
Chris: Eathers. Uh-huh. Ethers.
Dan: Ethers. Um, so what I'm gonna have you do is kinda over your mouth kinda breathe it in.
It's actually gonna go up through your nostrils- I got you ... and you can actually smell a little bit of what you're, of what you're getting ready to drink.
Chris: Is it bad that I kinda like that burn?
Dan: No, it's, uh- Of a fresh pop ... the burn, the burn's good, man. So some people really, really like that burn. So your first taste, especially if it's, what, I don't know, it's 12:15 in the afternoon.
It's, we don't, we
Chris: don't... We're, we're not gonna say what time
Dan: it is. Whatever, whatever time it is. Okay. Um, so it's early in the morning. You probably haven't had any alcohol yet. Um- I have
Chris: not.
Dan: So if it's your first drink, almost take it as a, it's like a testing. Okay. Like, okay, 'cause it's, it's, it's gonna burn a little bit.
You're gonna kinda, uh, wake up those taste buds. So you wanna make sure you don't have too much right away. So take just like a little bit of a sip, and then what I want you to notice as you kinda move it around your mouth, it's, you're gonna have that burn. Um, then it'll, it'll kind of dissipate. We'll take a, take a second, then we'll go in for our actual second real drink.
Yeah. So a little breathe in. Good. I get a lot of... Actually, what, what do you s- what do you nose off of this? That's an interesting- And there's no wrong answer.
Chris: Maybe I think it's on the fruitier side- Mm-hmm ... versus like a smoky-
Dan: Mm-hmm
Chris: Maybe little vanillas.
Dan: Mm-hmm. There's a lot ... For me, I get a lot of brown sugar, a lot of vanillas Yeah.
This is more, uh, brown sugary for me
But again, you get that initial burn.
Chris: Oh,
Dan: man. It's gonna kind of stay there on the front end. It's gonna move its way to the back. And if it's working its way down to your chest, that's that little Kentucky hug or this is MGP- ... so it's an Indiana hug.
Chris: Oh,
Dan: yeah. So once that, once that kind of dissipates, and y- I mean, you're gonna get a little bit of flavor off that, but again, it's mostly gonna be the alcohol.
So your next drink coming in is gonna be kind of where we can get a little bit more flavor, um- We're acclimated now. Uh, you're, you're acclimated. Now we- Yes ... should probably take a little bit more time, but you know, whatever.
And I like to kind of swish it around in my mouth and kind of get a feel. Um, you'd be able to tell me this. Like, the, on the tongue has all the different taste buds. Yeah. It's like a, I think the sides are... Man, I should know this right off the bat.
Chris: I want to say the sides are, like, sour,
Dan: bitter. Sides are sour.
I think the front's sweet, the middle's umami. Um-
Chris: We're definitely getting a lot, like, in the jowls. Yeah.
Dan: Yeah. So getting, getting a lot right through there. So it's just kind of where you put it in on your tongue. Um, so I wouldn't recommend, you know, taking it and shooting it. I mean, you could- ... but that's gonna go all right to the back.
Yeah. Especially something this strong. So.
Chris: No, that, that is beautiful though. It's, like, very sweet.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: Uh, very palatable. Mm-hmm. Like, outside of that initial burn. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, very, very delightful. Yeah. And again, that aftertaste. Like, once, once the, the alcohol kind of dissipates a little bit- Mm-hmm
like, just what's, what's lingering- It's
Dan: got a long- ... is really great ... it's got a long finish, which is what I like. I like that longer finish. Yes, yes. I want to know that I've, I've had something strong.
Chris: Yes. So, so again, in my food science-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: little dabbling, I'm trying to f- to learn more about this. And I've learned that, like, some alcohols are- What do they say?
Oh gosh, they behave more like fats?
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: And so it's gonna like linger a little bit longer like on your palate.
Dan: Now some of them do have a, there's a, there's a Maker's Mark that has a FAE series. It's like FA, it's fatty acid esters. Okay. So I wonder if that has anything to do with it. Yeah, yeah. They, they put something in it or do, do something to it.
I should know more about that.
Chris: No, I think it's, it's literally just like it's u- it's what the yeast
Dan: produces. That's what I was gonna... So it's, so it's in the, it's in the, the mash that they use. Yeah. Yeah.
Chris: Yeah, yeah. So, so some of the alcohols are gonna be a little bit more on the fattier, like they act more fatty-
Dan: Interesting
Chris: than, than other alcohols.
Dan: Interesting. So
Chris: yeah.
Dan: Well, cool.
Chris: It's beautiful. Yeah. I need to learn more about it. Like I literally just read that last night, so. Yeah. Trying to, uh, you know, scrub up on my, my knowledge here. But yeah, super, super pretty. These are gorgeous. Mm-hmm. So tell me about the process of like making your own bottle.
Like did you go and like s- like choose from a bunch of different barrels and-
Dan: So yeah. So for this we had, it was fun, we had 10 different barrels to choose from. Okay. Which sounds kinda... That's actually, that's so much fun. Yeah. It sounds a little daunting, you know, 'cause which one do I pick? Um, I can normally, you know, there's a process.
You kind of smell, maybe do a little bit of a taste. I can normally knock two or three right off the bat out that I'm not gonna like. Yeah. It's gonna have a funky smell or something- Yeah ... that doesn't kind of agree with me. And then you go back through- Okay ... and you try it, you try it, you try it. And it's gonna get a little better and a little better- Yeah
as soon as it opens up. Um, now that's- Mm ... that's something that's kinda like wine. You know, as the air oxidizes a little bit, it's gonna, it's gonna help open it up. Another thing you can do too is if you add a little drop of water- Yeah ... that's gonna, it'll lower the proof. It'll open that right up. So.
That's a
Chris: question I was gonna ask later on, but- Yeah ...
Dan: we
Chris: can talk about it now.
Dan: So these are, um, again yeah, we had, you know, 10 barrels laid out and I pains licking, painstakingly took the time to try each of them and then try some of them again and try some of them again and- ... try some of them again. So it was a- Yeah
it's, it's always a fun process. And then-
Chris: That's rad ...
Dan: it's fun to see, you know, 'cause at the end you'd have, you've had, you know, quite a few drinks and then when you get the final product, is it what you remember actually- Okay ... tasting? Is it as good, um, as you've tasted? So yeah, that's kind of- That's awesome
the process from that. So.
Chris: Yeah. I love that. Mm. I love just the comparison of, of different- What do you call it? Mash bills, just like the ingredients essentially, or- Well, e-
Dan: even, even with the- ... how do you say it? Even, yeah, so even the mash bill can be the same, 'cause I believe the mash bill's the same on these.
Um, and it's, it, the, so everything to do with where it's at in the b- where it's at in the warehouse, you know, they c- Yeah ... they can have two sister barrels from the same mash that taste completely different. Uh, you know, up high, up low in the warehouse, tastes completely different just the way that, the way that it works, the way that the wind moves around it, the way that the-
Chris: Yeah
Dan: the heat's taken it, the way that the evaporation's worked with it. And so it's, it's a really interesting process. I mean, literally the same, same mash, same d- you know, basically the, essentially the same barrels right next to each other can taste completely different. Oh,
Chris: yeah. So. That's, that's one thing I learned at Whiskey Thief.
Mm-hmm. Um, so I did their little tour-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: essentially, and the tour ends with a sampling of, I think they, at least four, maybe five barrels. Yeah. And, you know, they had, the barrels are all lined out, and then they had a chalkboard of like, "Hey, here's what's in each barrel." Mm-hmm. And two of the barrels were identical ingredient-wise.
The only difference was that this barrel was made from a tree that came from that forest, and this barrel- Interesting ... came from a tree that was made from that forest.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: And they were very different.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: You know, exact same ingredients, exact same age, exact same placement in the warehouse. Like, literally the only thing that was different was the trees.
The, yeah,
Dan: yeah.
Chris: Same species of trees, same age, same everything. Um, and it's, it's wild. It's, I, I mean, it's alchemy. It's literally alchemy. Mm-hmm. Like, you're, you know, you're, you're putting fire under this wood, like, and, you know- And you s- ... caramelizing the sugars and-
Dan: And y- you, you have an idea of how it's gonna turn out, but you don't exactly quite know how it's actually gonna be.
Yeah. There's another company of, they do Kentucky and Texas, but they, it's, uh, Milam & Greene, and they've done the same thing. They take the same mash. They, uh, I think they distill it in Kentucky. They do everything in Kentucky, and then they ship some of the barrels off to Texas. Okay. And they s- so they, they store some in Texas, and they store some in Kentucky, and then they release them at the same time.
Hmm. So it's all originated in the same place, but the heat from Texas-
Chris: Yeah ...
Dan: is a lot more. It's just, and m- different atmosphere. Well, it's not just the
Chris: heat. Yeah, it's the
Dan: heat-
Chris: Well, it's- ... the elevation,
Dan: the humidity ... ev- ev- everything else. Yeah. So that's gonna affect the barrels differently. So they did a little kind of experimental project like that.
It was really interesting just to see- Yeah, that's awesome ... how it changed.
Chris: Yes. So. And that's what I like about it. I love, like, those direct comparisons and- Oh, yeah ... just like, which is better?
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: I don't know. Yes. Well, my turn here. I got, um, I'm more excited about this one, so I'm gonna start over here.
And this is This is a callback to my very first sip of any spirit. My first drink, I think ever, was this brand.
Dan: Oh.
Chris: So we've got-
Dan: Oh, whoa ... Jack
Chris: Daniel's.
Dan: It's the 14. Now, I have not had this one yet.
Chris: You have not had this one? Not the 14.
Dan: Yes. Nice.
Chris: It's, um, so Jack Daniel's- Mm-hmm ... is, it's a big brand.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: You know it.
Oh, yeah. You've heard of it. Um, and typically I like to steer away from the big brands. Mm-hmm. Um, I like the small brands better. I like people like this. Mm-hmm. People like Whiskey Thief, people like, um, you know, MGP. Eh, yeah, MGP's great. Um- Yeah ... they're not, they're not Jack Daniel's big, right?
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Um, but it's, again, it's history.
It's historic for me. Yeah. You know, there's some s- there's definitely some food memories attached to Jack Daniel's. Um, some really positive ones. It wasn't a terrible night.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: That first drink night. But, um, a lot of people were talking about this.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: And, um, some people that I really respect were talking about like, "Yeah, Jack Daniel's, Jack Daniel's is doing some really, really cool stuff."
And then I was talking to... I knew you paired up with Big Red.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: And so I've got some contacts over there, so I was like, "Hey, like, what can I get that Dan probably hasn't tried?"
Dan: Nice.
Chris: Yeah, like, this is what they told me about. So on that note-
Dan: Good one, man ...
Chris: we're gonna try, try it out here.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: But I gotta do
Dan: it
Chris: right
Dan: here.
I wanna see. I wanna see you, I wanna see you pop it.
Chris: I don't know if I trust myself doing it airborne like you did. I'm, I'm gonna leave it on the table. Ooh. Not as deep and robust, but... So where's your cup here? Do you need a fresh one? Yeah.
Dan: Nice.
Chris: So this is Jack Daniel's 14 year old, uh, 117 proof, batch number two.
Dan: Hmm.
Chris: And you've had batch one did you say, or?
Dan: I have, um, I've had the 10 year and the 12 year. I haven't had the 14 year yet. Okay. Yeah, so. Nice.
Chris: I'm honored.
Dan: So they keep, uh- I found something Yeah ...
Chris: I found something you didn't try.
Dan: They, um, they've, they've got a, a, again they're, they're, I think they're just, every year they go they're just gonna keep releasing another year-
Chris: Okay
Dan: old, so.
Chris: So I'm gonna ask a question as we're trying this.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: Is older actually better?
Dan: It depends, man. There's a- It
Chris: depends ...
Dan: there's, there's a-
Chris: Like we referred to at the beginning of the episode, it just depends
Dan: probably. There's a, there's a sweet spot. I mean, I've had some, I've had some really old whiskeys, you know, some 20 plus year old whiskeys that are just, like, way too over oaked.
Chris: Okay.
Dan: And it's like, man, you should've, you should've s- Should've stopped ... you should've stopped at that point. Um, actually Buffalo Trace even has a distillery where they, or it has a, uh, a room. It's a cold storage room, and so what they've done is to stop or to super slow the aging process of the barrels 'cause they, it's what they have in the, in the barrels itself is, is where they wanna keep it.
And so they- Okay ... they basically, they put it in a cold storage to stop that- Oh, really? Okay ... stop that aging process. Nice. Yeah, so there's, there's definitely a point of, you know, it's like, like wine. There's a point of, you know, it, it's, it's not as good anymore. Um. Yeah. You know, for most whiskeys I'd say, I mean, a- again, it's all gonna depend on the actual whiskey, but it's anywhere from, you know, probably 5 to 10, 12- Yeah
14 years, you know, something like that. Um, there's a, there's a sweet spot with everything. Again, you know, where was it at in the warehouse, um.
Chris: Exactly, yeah. Well, cheers.
Dan: Cheers. Well, hey, I wanna, actually when you do this, I wanna, if you're comparing this to your original Jack Daniel's- I
Chris: mean, it's been a minute, but
Dan: Yeah, so I mean, so just, I mean, I want you to, I wanna, I wanna know what you think is different about this.
Chris: What I should have done- Uh huh ... is I should have grabbed, like, an everyday Jack Daniel's bottle. Mm-hmm. And I, I should have done a blind
Dan: whiskey. You can kind of, you can kind of call back. You can throw back to those- Oh,
Chris: I remember what that tastes like ...
Dan: those college days and remember what that tastes like.
Chris: Well, right off the bat, the nose is significantly different-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: than the pour you just gave me from, was it your, your fourth, your fourth edition here? Or is it five? Fourth,
Dan: yeah, the fourth edition. Yeah.
Chris: So it, I mean, it's very smooth. There's very little, like, burn
Dan: going on. There's, yeah, there's just not a lot of, not a lot of burn.
Hmm.
Chris: If you gave me this I would have not guessed Jack Daniel's
Dan: I can get a little bit of, you get that little bit of Jack on the back end, on the very, very back end. Yeah Again, it's,
Chris: it's been a long time since I've had Jack D- I get, I see it now. I see it now.
Dan: Mm-hmm. Right there on the, on the finish.
Chris: I gotta think about it a little bit.
Yeah, it's-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: it finishes like Jack, but everything before that lingering aftertaste- It's nice.
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: screams something different.
Dan: But- It's really nice Jack always has kind of a soury for me. Yeah. Um, kind of a soury... Can I have a little bit more?
Chris: Absolutely, yeah,
Dan: yeah. Help yourself. Um, there's, it's kind of a, a, a s- a sour finish I should say.
Chris: It's Jack Daniels. Yeah. It's got... It, it's, it's, it the signature thing.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: And I'm assuming the recipe's the same. I did zero research on all this, so is it- I don't, I- ... the exact same recipe, it just aged longer?
Dan: You know, all my, all my whiskey buddies would probably kill me. It's, it's, um-
Chris: Write in if you know the answer
Dan: Yeah, write in if you know the answer. Um, I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just gonna say, I'm gonna assume yes- Good ... and then say that it's just aged a lot longer. Yeah. Um, that's- We'll get back to you
Chris: on that ...
Dan: that's my guess on that. But, uh- '
Chris: Cause what's, I mean, what's the average Jack aged, do you know?
Dan: God, probably f- I don't know, four or five years.
Chris: Less than, less than 14?
Dan: Yeah, a lot less than 14. Um... Hmm. Maybe they did do their own special, uh,
Chris: yeah. And even at 14 years, this doesn't give me, like, too much.
Dan: Hmm.
Chris: Like, I'm not, it's not overpowering in any way.
Dan: Hmm. And let it, I'd do, I'd do another one too if I were you. I'm just gonna encourage you to drink as much as you can.
117 proof, yeah. Um-
Chris: And yours is 116, yeah, so very- Yeah ... very high proof stuff.
Dan: Yeah. I'm
Chris: gonna try a little bit of this.
Dan: Let it, uh, yeah, you can kinda let it open up a little bit. But if you, uh, there's, so what they call is the, the neck pour, which is ki- basically what we did.
Chris: That's another question
Dan: I was gonna ask you.
Um, man, let's go right into it. So i- is there a neck pour? Yes, there is a neck pour, like when we open this, you know, if, if you, if you dump it right in- Ooh ... and you let it sit, it, if you, if you don't- Give it a
Chris: splash ...
Dan: don't let it sit, um, if you don't let it sit, it's gonna, uh, you're g- again, you're gonna have all that alcohol right off the beginning, but if you let it sit, you let it open up just a little bit, um, that's kinda why I left the top off, let it breathe.
Yeah. You can even just swirl it around in your glass. That kinda dissipates that, that neck pour. But that's, you know, I've, I've had some, I've had some whiskey where I just thought it was awful, you know? Hmm. And then I came back six months later and I was like, "I, this is the best thing I've ever had. Why, w- w- I can't believe I've been, you know, pushing that to the back- Right
of the cabinet. This needs to, this needs to come forward."
Chris: Yeah. My cousin, um, shout out Ben, thank you for everything you've taught me, Ben did tell me that, and he's like, "Yeah, if you open it, maybe give it an hour, if that."
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: Um, but, like, he, he encouraged me, "Yeah, try it straight away," but again, same thing, "If you didn't like it, come back."
Dan: Come back to it, yeah.
Chris: Come back-
Dan: Definitely
Chris: come back to it ... a couple hours later, come back a couple days later. Come back
Dan: a couple months later. Weeks later.
Chris: Yeah.
Dan: I mean, I, I haven't had any... Well, yeah, I haven't really had much to eat today, but, um, if you're- That's, that's why
Chris: I put the chips
Dan: out ... that's, that's another thing too, though, no, is if you're pairing it with something else, I mean, what- whatever you've had will also have an effect on the way that the alcohol- Yeah
tastes, so do it before food, do it after food. Yeah. Do it as a meal itself.
Chris: Yeah, I brought these out to kinda, like, clear my palate- Yeah ... between drinks, but I forgot.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: So we'll, we'll try for... They are very dry, though, so get a drink with you. But-
Dan: Mm.
Chris: No, this is pleasant Um again, dipping into my f limited food science knowledge The quantity of alcohol in a drink drastically affects the aromas that put out.
So, and this kind of dips into cooking with alcohol-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: which I was gonna ask you later on. We c- you can answer now, um, if you ever use alcohol in your cooking or bourbon in your cooking or wine or whatnot. I,
Dan: I don't. You don't. Um, but I've got a friend that, um, always does, like, some kind of reduction or some kind of a glaze- Yeah
or something like that, and it's- Some
Chris: flambe ...
Dan: and we've done some, we've done some whiskey dinners where we kind of pair those together- Yeah ... and it's so much fun, you know, 'cause he'll have, "Okay, this is a little bit more sweet, so we should pair it with, we should pair it with this." Okay. "We should, you know, this is a little bit more, you know, it's a little b- bit more meaty, so we need something a little bit more bold to- Yeah
to kind of take in with that." So that's always been kind of fun. But he does like to use, you know, whiskey and bourbon as he's, you know, cooking or doing some kind of a- Yeah ... bourbon glaze or something. So, yeah.
Chris: Yeah. I will say if, again, based on my limited knowledge on the food science, use probably less than you think because the more alcohol you put into your dish, those alcohols are just gonna trap- Yeah
aromas and trap flavors.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: So by dialing that back, I think e- either Kinji, Kinji or Harold McGee in their books recommended, like, one or 2% ABV in your final dish. Hmm. Like, that's kind of the sweet spot of, like, it's adding enough of that alcohol- Mm-hmm ... you know, you know, wood flavors to your dish, but it's not so much that it's, like, actually trapping.
Dan: Yeah, 'cause m- I mean, you wanna cook most of it off anyway. You don't want the actual alcohol. You just want the- Actual
Chris: alcohol, yeah, you don't really want in your pasta or whatever. Yeah. But, uh, but, uh, the flavors 100% are- Yeah ... recommended-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: um, in very small doses. Um, and I think all the, the, uh, experience I've done with trying to cook with alcohol, um, lately I tried to make a barbecue sauce.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: And I put a little too much- ... a little too much booze in it, and it 100%, yeah, like, it makes sense now that I read the books. Like, it, it just traps too much. Um, I didn't cook off enough of that alcohol- Mm ... and it just, it, it was fine, but it wasn't good.
Dan: I had some- Of course ... some whiskey cakes. I think that's what they were called.
Okay. They, they, they were wrapped in some kind of a, a sheet paper, and I don't know if she sprayed them beforehand or, or before she gave them to me. Okay. But I mean, I, I fin- I, I sh- probably shouldn't have eaten the whole thing, but I finished one- ... and I was like, "Man, I'm a little-"
Chris: Little busy? "
Dan: I feel a little, I feel pretty good."
That's funny. And, and, a- and I, you know, I think some of the, the, the paper was keeping, you know, some of the extra boo... And I think she did spritz it down a little bit. Yeah. Um.
Chris: Well, another thing I- But that was kind of fun ... literally just learned is it is very hard to cook off all of the alcohol.
Dan: Hmm.
Chris: And even in a stew, like, if you've done, like, a, a big roast, like, you always put wine in a Crockpot roast, and even after, like, two and a half hours, there's still gonna be, like, five to seven percent alcohol In that stew.
Hmm. And again, the science is weird. The science is super cool, but again, apparently the, the more alcohol that's in Um, you know, the, the vessel that you're cooking, like the harder it is to evaporate that alcohol because the presence of the alcohol is just gonna force water to evaporate-
Dan: Oh ...
Chris: instead of the alcohol.
Dan: Interesting.
Chris: So again, I need to dive into it more. I need to understand it more, but, um, like even on a flambe, like you're not burning off all the alcohol. Like it's-
Dan: Well, I guess that makes sense. So that's kind of the same as what happens in a whiskey barrel. So as the whiskey ages, that's how the proof goes up.
So it's gonna start at a certain, at a certain proof point. You know, might go into the barrel 120 or something, and then we get, you know, something a little bit higher, so if it ages a little bit longer, you have more of the water evaporating out. Mm-hmm. So you're gonna have less liquid and so more of a concentration of alcohol.
Yeah. So if you ever see anything over, you know, 120, 130, 140, um, that's why it's the... The water's essentially evaporated out and you're left with just the alcohol.
Chris: Yeah.
Dan: So.
Chris: And that's not the angel's share,
Dan: right? The angel's share is what's kind of evaporated out. Yeah.
Chris: Like actual alcohol that's-
Dan: Or it's the-
leaving or- It's the... I think it's just the evaporation- Just
Chris: volume- Yeah ... of the barrel.
Dan: Yeah. I got
Chris: you.
Dan: So if you start with a full barrel and you f- uh, again, you'll find some of these, some of these really, really short barrels, um, and I've had some really good ones just with some phenomenal, phenomenal flavor, um, from them, so.
Chris: Nice.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Dude, I love it. Yeah, the science is cool, and I, again, I need to dip into it more, but like, yeah, just learning about what alcohol actually does-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: like really makes you think about like, well, A, how you use it in cooking, but then B, like how you consume it.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: And I was gonna ask your preference on cask strength or barrel, barrel strength, what, what's the proper terminology?
But like, like- There's, you know- ... full on versus like-
Dan: I... You know, there's... So the, the reason we did this, I have, I, I typically drink my stuff full proof. You know, that's... We, we did it full proof, and the reason why I do that is, you know, drink it the way you like it. But just like you did with this, you added a little bit of water and you liked it.
Chris: Yeah.
Dan: So they, they keep that high proof point, and so you can kind of tailor it to what your, your flavors are. Yeah. Now if they put that just at it 100 proof, you're kind of stuck there. You can only go- Sure ... down from there. So if someone likes it a little bit higher, a little bit hotter, um... Now that being said too, with the, the higher proof points, you're gonna get more distinct flavors.
So like when the master distiller is usually when they're doing their, their tastings, they're tasting them around 40%, so they're- Oh ... you know, they're really, really watering it down. I mean, they're doing a b- bunch of tastings, so water's their, their friend. They can pull out, you know, 30, 40, 50 different flavor profiles- Oh, yeah
that they're looking for. So I have, you know, I, I think, um, me want whiskey, me want dumb, you know? Mm. Brown sugar, that's what I taste. Yes. That's... So I kind of like that. You know, I want to be able to pull out a few distinct flavors as opposed to- Yeah ... oh, I'm getting this and this and this and this. So and that's what that higher proof point's gonna- Yeah
that's g- gonna give you that.
Chris: What's... It's a totally different product. Yeah. I mean, again, you've got your barrel- Mm-hmm barrel strength. Um, again, tell me if I'm saying it wrong. But, um, you water that down, like dumb down the proof to, you know, whatever. Mm-hmm. Like, it's very different products.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: So.
Dan: Now some pe- now some, some people will do that.
They'll find a... There's, you know, s- like a 107 is a pretty s- good proof point. Mm-hmm. So a lot of people, it's not too hot, it's not too- I'm
Chris: curious what this bottle is here. I forget.
Dan: You should let me, you should let me feel it and see if I can... Is, is it a local?
Chris: Nah. It's clo- It kind... Hmm. I can't spoil it, but-
Dan: Okay.
kind, kind of, I know. I used to do this, uh, this game where we'd keep the bottle in the bag and I'd try and- Ooh, we
Chris: can do that.
Dan: Yeah ... I'd try and feel it and, and see if I get it right. Anyway.
Chris: You can try that.
Dan: Um-
Chris: Yeah, so we talked about proofs, we talked about the barrels, we talked about cooking. Um, I've got here hangovers.
Do you have any hangover cures? What do you, what do you do for them? Man, I am really lucky. I
Dan: don't get- I didn't wanna assume. It's, it's, no, it's so, it's, it's, it's, it's... I get, people get pissed at me all the time 'cause it's, I mean, we'll hit it hard, really, really hard and wake up, and then, you know, the next day it's like...
I mean, I've had days where I'm obviously a little bit slower, but most of the time if I can get at least four and a half hours of sleep, I'm-
Chris: Yeah ...
Dan: gangbusters ready to go. Yeah. Um, I would say the biggest thing, water's your friend, obviously. A full stomach. You know, drinking on an empty stomach isn't good for anybody.
Right. Um, you can't drink as much, you can't drink as long. Um, I mean, I think the more you can kinda saturate your, your belly with food before you- Yeah ... saturate it with alcohol is gonna be a good thing. So I think it's all, it's the pre-planning as opposed- Absolutely ... to the post-planning.
Chris: Yeah. I
Dan: don't know.
Get some
Chris: electrolytes.
Dan: Yeah. Electrolytes are good. Um, you know, try and slam a bottle or two of water, uh, before you go to bed. You've got a lot of
Chris: muscle. That helps a
Dan: lot. I'm sure that helps a little bit too.
Chris: Yes.
Dan: But, uh, yeah, I'm trying to remember my worst. I mean, I probably had a nasty hangover in college, but yeah, I don't know.
Chris: It's been a long time for me as well. Uh, and my wife was complaining the other day and she's like, "We drank the exact same amount." Mm-hmm. Like, "Why is it affecting you more than it's affecting me?" And again, food silence. I literally last night just learned that, like, males tend to process alcohol more efficiently- Mm
than females do.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: And it's, like, literally just genetics. Well, there's- Well, it's genetics as well as just, like-
Dan: There's other, uh, bo- body weight, muscle mass, just like you said. 100%, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, you take 150 pound person versus a 260 pound person. Yeah. Yeah. Probably not gonna be able to drink the same.
You might be able to, but, um.
Chris: Yeah. But I think it's literally, like, an X chromosome, Y chromosome situation. Like- Oh, really ... I think they said, like, literally the Y chromosome will process up to 30% of alcohol- Mm ... like, in the stomach, in the gut before it, like, enters your blood. But the, the XX chromosome only digests 10% before it enters your blood.
Dan: Oh, interesting.
Chris: So, like, like, literally, like, the X chromosome or the Y chromosome-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: is just, like, we're literally putting less alcohol into our bloodstream-
Dan: That's interesting ...
Chris: when we drink.
Dan: So while we're on that topic as well, and we kinda talk about taste, so women typically have more taste buds-
Chris: I've noticed, yeah
Dan: than men. And so- Well, they smell
Chris: better too ...
Dan: they smell better, so, um-
Chris: Well, they, they, they do smell better, but they, they- ... their noses are more efficient.
Dan: So I've, I've got a, I've got a ton of, uh, women in whiskey, a ton of women friends, um, that love whiskey and, uh-
Chris: Well, you just did that post with, uh, the lady that prefers wine- Yeah,
Dan: yeah, yeah
but you
Chris: gave her some whiskey and
Dan: she's like- Gave her some whiskey ... yeah. She loves the whiskey. So, um, it's, it's, it's fun to see, um- A, you know, you go to bars and, you know, the men kind of come over and they'll go, "Oh, hey sweetie. Oh, hey honey. You should, you should try this." And you kind of watch them, you know, school them in, in what's actually going on behind the scenes.
Um, but yeah, it's... Yeah, so women are better, women are better whiskey tasters than men, I'll say. I
Chris: believe it. I believe you.
Dan: So-
Chris: If it has anything to do with my cooking and what my wife complains about, like- Yeah, they, they taste things we do not. I can confirm, so. Awesome. Well, uh, what is next here? What else do you got here?
Do I need to crack open my other bottle here?
Dan: You do, and I've got one more bottle, too.
Chris: Ooh. What do you wanna do first?
Dan: Um- The secret, the secret pour? Let's do yours and then I've got one of my top 10, we'll say craft distillery- Ooh ... uh, actually one of my top 10 bottles for this year, um, and it's from a craft distillery, so-
Chris: Okay
Dan: I like to share, share as much as I can with- Yes, yes ... the folks. So let's do your bottle.
Chris: This bottle is, I think it's a special bottle.
Dan: Okay.
Chris: It's, again, it's, we've got some connections here with Aaron. Mm-hmm. So I discovered this brand because Aaron did the artwork-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: for this bottle. Do you know who I'm talking about?
Dan: Eighth Day?
Chris: No.
Dan: Oh. Um-
Chris: Do they do bourbon, Eighth Day?
Dan: Eighth Day Distillery, yeah. Yeah. I thought
Chris: that was... I'm mixing things up in my head
Dan: Yeah, Eight Day, Eight Day Distillery Oh, okay They do, they, they do their, they've got whiskey and, um-
Chris: Why'd I think they were only ciders?
Dan: I don't know. I mean, I-
Chris: Dan, I live under a rock.
I've got three kids under the age of six.
Dan: They do, they, they do whiskey, they do cocktails, and they're- Okay ... they're over there in the, uh, what's that building called? The, uh...
Chris: CCIC?
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Or Circle City Industrial
Dan: Complex? Yeah. The Cir- I went to CCIC ... so Circle City Industrial Complex. It's mouthful. So go check out Eight Day.
Chris: They're awesome. I love 'em. Yeah.
Dan: They just had Pronto Tacos over there too. Ooh. Have you had?
Chris: Yes.
Dan: Oh, man. Yes. Okay. I, I missed it. Um, we had some stuff to do. I travel for food. Yeah. The Pronto Tacos, Eight Day Distillery. It was-
Chris: Yes. Yes. So this bottle, the mystery bottle, has... It's a blend of eight-and-a-half to 10-year-old whiskey.
All right. So it's a little on the older side. That
Dan: sweet, that sweet spot
Chris: or something, huh? It's not quite as old as our- Right ... our Jack Poor there. It's recently scored 98 out of 100 at the San Francisco World Spirits Competition.
Dan: All right.
Chris: And it was a finalist for the best small batch bourbon in the world.
Dan: Whoa.
Chris: So it's got some credits behind it. So-
Dan: And there's some connections with Aaron too, huh?
Chris: With, Aaron did the artwork. Okay. Well, Aaron did the original artwork. I can't confirm Aaron did this artwork.
Dan: Okay.
Chris: So, so I discovered this brand because Aaron made a post.
Dan: Okay.
Chris: And he posted the bottle, and like, that is the best looking bottle I have ever seen.
And I was like, "Where can I find this bottle?" Yeah. And so he sent me the contact, Kevin. And, like, Kevin and I have, like, we've been going back and forth. Um, I photographed some of their stuff before, and it is, like, I love it. I love, I love Kevin. I love the brand. Um, it is The Beautiful and the Damned.
Dan: Oh.
Chris: And they are pseudo sponsor of the episode.
Nice. Uh, Kevin provided me with this bottle. It is The Last Lion.
Dan: I've seen these. I haven't had
Chris: any. And this is their cask strength straight bourbon whiskey. This is batch three. It is 115 proof. Yeah, eight-and-a-half to 10-year-old blend-
Dan: Nice ...
Chris: I think you should say. Um, but again, stunning artwork.
Dan: I love the, uh-
Chris: I absolutely love it.
Dan: Yeah. But I've seen these. Um, I just haven't- So
Chris: another one you haven't tried?
Dan: Another one I haven't tried. Yeah. Have you
Chris: had any of their stuff?
Dan: I haven't. Um-
Chris: They've got... Oh, Kevin, don't kill me. I forget the names of everything. Um, this is The Last Lion. They've got, yeah, they've got, um, The Diplomat.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Okay, so it's another, so it's another MGP. It is. Yeah, so it's an MGP. Yeah, yeah. Um-
Chris: Is this one specifically MGP?
Dan: Uh- 'Cause
Chris: I know they, they source the, the best barrels-
Dan: Yeah, so this one is- ... from everywhere, so ... yeah, distilled, uh, MGP out of Indiana, Lawrenceburg, Indiana. Founded in Chicago- Yes ... so from Chicago, but, uh-
Chris: Yeah, Chicago's kind of where they're based, yeah- Mm-hmm
headquartered. Um, I need, I need, I'm looking it up real quick, the other, the other... It's a lion on the other barrel-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: or the other bottle Oh, Never Surrender. Yes. Yeah, there's the artwork on the other one, but- Yeah ... like it's freaking gorgeous
Dan: I've, I've seen these two. Um, yeah, they look, they look nice.
Chris: Yes. Again, it, it's a whiskey that I would buy just because of the way the bo- the barrel looks, or the, the bottle looks. Uh, gorgeous artwork, all thanks to Aaron Schemhorn. Um, phenomenal job there. But I think the whiskey backs it up. Like, it is... I have not tried this one. Crack it open for us. Yes, sir. I have not had this one.
I'm really excited about it because Never Surrender is a beautiful bottle. Like, I, I loved how that one came out. Um, the Diplomat... Is it, wait, is it a Diplomat? The Man of Leisure. Man of Leisure is the other one. Um, the Diplomat is the older version of the Man of Leisure, um, again, if we're basing it all off artwork, which is what I do.
So yes, the Last Lion.
Dan: Definitely a beautiful bottle.
Chris: It is stunning. Thank you, Kevin. Thank you, the beautiful and the damned whiskey house.
Dan: Eight and a half. One, uh, what's the proof again? One-
Chris: 115. 115.
Dan: 115, nice. Yes.
Chris: So another stronger one.
Dan: It's soft, though, f- when I- Very ... just right off the first nose- Yes
it's not, it's not eth- ethanol forward.
Chris: So what is the difference there? Uh, I mean, 'cause your bottle is very similar proof. 116 proof, right? Mm-hmm. And it was very, very potent-
Dan: Uh- ...
Chris: right off the bat ...
Dan: sometimes the younger age is gonna hit you a- Okay ... li- a little bit more. You can, uh, you can smell that it's younger.
It hasn't had the time to kind of mature- Oh, okay. So just an aged whiskey. Well, it hasn't had the time to mature in the oak. You know, it hasn't had the time to pull out all those extra sugars- Okay ... um, from each of the different seasons- So just potentially, yeah, a little- Yeah ...
Chris: little more alcohol forward because of the age.
How, how old is yours again?
Dan: Uh, it's a five and a half, almost six year. Okay. So it's got a couple, yeah.
Chris: So not quite-
Dan: Two and, yeah, two and a half years ...
Chris: double age. Yeah. Yeah. The Jack was a little over double, but-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: no, this is gorgeous right off the bat, so.
I like that
Not f- really fruity. Yeah, definitely getting more of the softer-
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: It's, it's, yeah ... you know, vanillas and little tiny bit of smokes.
Dan: Hmm. Soft and it's got a little, it's got a little linger- Very sweet finish ... it's got a little ling- yeah, a little sweet finish, a little linger on my tongue, but it's gone on the...
It's got a very, uh, mid, um, middle range, middle range finish I should say.
Chris: Yeah. Ear- earlier we were getting like hit real hard on the jowls, but this is like the very top back of my tongue. Like again, whatever flavors that are, but that is- Can I get a little
Dan: bit more of that? Yes, please. For science. For science.
Chris: Yeah. No, this is gorgeous. Uh, the Jack, I think I preferred. I think I typically prefer mine proofed down just a hair.
Dan: Do you?
Chris: And again- What about the Jack- It's- ...
Dan: when you add the water?
Chris: I thought it, I thought it improved it a little bit.
Dan: Mm-hmm. I need- I
Chris: like- I need like a little eyedropper, 'cause this is the, the wrong way to
Dan: do this.
But I like the finish. Oh, here. I- we'll do, do that a- we can have that one, and I'll tell you- Okay ... I'll show you another cool- Oh, yeah ... little trick on how to do it. Um, I like the finish on this one, um, a little bit better than the Jack. I like the mouth feel. Very clean
Chris: finish.
Dan: I like the mouth feel, um, the nose on the Jack, but I think the finish on this gets it for me a little bit.
Chris: Yeah, you're right. The Jack finished like Jack.
Dan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. You can- Which- Well, you know it's, you know it's Jack. Yes. You know it's a, you know it's a Jack Daniel's product. But
Chris: this, this is... My wife would adore this bottle.
Dan: So-
Chris: And I hope she gets to try it.
Dan: While we're, while we're thinking, um, while we're thinking, uh, about your wife, what's, uh, what's, what do you think she would like food-wise paired with this?
How would you, how would you pair something with this bottle?
Chris: I mean, she's not gonna hate me for saying this, but she is not an adventurous eater.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: Um, I mean, she, pad Thai is kind of her go-to. Mm-hmm. Just Alfredo's her go-to, and those are not really whiskey meals I would say.
Dan: Anything can be a whiskey
Chris: meal.
Anything's a whiskey meal. But, um, um, I mean, I mean, I'm gonna pair this with like some meat. Mm. Some red meat, and that's gonna be gorgeous. Um, honestly, this you could, I... This is a very palatable dessert beverage.
Dan: I was gonna say, there's a lot of sweetness on the back end of this.
Chris: So I'm gonna say give her a bowl of just vanilla ice cream and this.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: And I think that would rock.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Maybe a little bit of like strawberry preserves on top. She hates fruit in ice cream though, so.
Dan: That nose is opening right up on this. This is awesome.
Chris: Yes. So next week this is gonna be like-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: 10 times better
Kevin, well done. This is a beautiful bo- I see why it got, like, 98 out of 100. This is a gorgeous bottle. I love this. I'm curious to hear your feedback, too, on Never Surrender and, like, some of his younger-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: blends.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Um, especially The Diplomat. What is The Diplomat? Um, so you asked about my wife, and I assumed you were, you were gonna go to, like, what, what's her preference on spirit.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: And she likes Rye a lot. Okay.
Dan: All right. And- A little, a little spicier? A
Chris: little- Yes. Yes. I've trained her well.
Dan: It's, it's, uh, uh, the reason I asked your wife and not you is just 'cause it puts you in a different perspective of, "Okay, if I'm making something for somebody else."
Chris: Yes.
Dan: So, well, same question, what would you, what would you have with it?
The same?
Chris: This, I mean, 100%, yeah, I'm gonna try this with ice cream- Yeah ... when I get home. Yeah. I think that's gonna be great. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a vanilla guy instead of- Yeah ... like, I'm, I, I like chocolate, but I don't- I love giving you a good
Dan: vanilla bean all day long.
Chris: Oh my gosh. Yeah. So, so I'm thinking some homemade vanilla bean ice cream.
Dan: Mm-hmm. '
Chris: Cause it, just homemade hits way harder. Um, but yeah, amp those vanilla flavors and just, yeah, round it out 'cause it's, it's a very sweet finish. I think it's gonna be gorgeous.
Dan: Mm.
Chris: What are you drinking, or what are you eating with this?
Dan: I'm eating anything with this. Um- ... like you said, uh, I'm a, I'm a big meat guy.
Eat steak probably three, four nights a week. Um- Oh my gosh.
Chris: Yes ...
Dan: steak, burgers, uh, meat of some sort. We've been doing, me and my girlfriend have been doing these, uh, I call them, like, sweet potato burger bowls. Hmm. So it's, like, ground beef, a sweet potato, some cottage cheese, some green beans, drizzle some hot honey over it.
Chris: Oh my gosh.
Dan: So it's got a little bit of the sweetness, and I could probably finish it with, you know, three or four of these.
Chris: Yeah.
Dan: That'd be good. I'm already, yeah. All right. So we're gonna do, do you wanna do one more of these or do you wanna do the final pour?
Chris: Well, teach me. Teach me
Dan: what you were- Well, that's, that's what I was gonna do.
Yeah. Do you wanna do that with the final pour or do you wanna do it with this?
Chris: Um, let's do it with this 'cause I like it a whole
Dan: lot. All right, perfect. That's more drinking for us. So I'm gonna pour... I don't know how much to pour you. Uh-
Chris: Trust your gut.
Dan: Okay. Yeah. Well, like-
Chris: Trust your gut.
Dan: Don't say that.
That's da- that's dangerous. So when you put water in- Yes, sir ... you can never take the water out. You can only add more whiskey.
Chris: I was gonna say, yep.
Dan: So that's, like, droppers are good. So there's another thing that you can do is you can put a little bit of water in your mouth-
Chris: Okay ...
Dan: and you can add the whiskey.
And the really cool thing about doing this is when you do this, you can kind of feel some of the oils. You can kind of feel it- Yeah ... dissolve, and you can kind of feel the, the science, the combustion that's gonna happen- Yes ... in your mouth. I like that. So it's, it's a really interesting... So take just a little bit of water, and then you can add whiskey.
You can add a little bit more. So keep it, keep the water in your mouth as you- Yeah ... as you add the whiskey. And what that does- Just doing that
Chris: custom blend ... it,
Dan: it proofs it down ... on your tongue. Yeah, it proofs it down- Yeah ... in your mouth, but it makes it- Top that ... so I'll do a little bit before
And then water
And it changes it completely, 'cause you can, again, it's gonna proof it down. You should be able to pick out a lot more flavors. I got a lot more oak that time-
Chris: Hmm ...
Dan: on that one
Hmm So it seemed just more rounded, a lot more rounded on it. Again, I mean, I proofed it down probably a good 20%, but it's just some- it's something you can kind of play with Yes ... something, something new. Another way to-
Chris: Honestly, with the water- ...
Dan: deliver the drink. Yeah ...
Chris: it could be all in my head, but I felt it, like, more in my sinuses.
Dan: Oh, really?
Chris: Like it just-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: it almost, like, exploded up.
Dan: I liked it. It's, it's g- it's... 'Cause the wa- the water I'm drinking is nice and cold, and then you can feel the whiskey, again, just kind of come and kind of swirl around.
Chris: Yes, yes.
Dan: If I was better at painting word pictures, I'd be able to-
Chris: Well, 'cause oils and waters-
Dan: Oh, there you
Chris: go.
Don't al- and alcohols, again, it's e- exact- that's why, like, cocktails layer up the way they do. Oh. Um, so it's a, it's, it's a third type of liquid. So you've got your, your water and your oils, and we know that those don't mix. Alcohol also, like... It, it's not as drastic as oil and water- Yeah ... but it does tend to kind of, like, stick to its own playing field.
Um, so it, it does. Yeah, it takes a little bit to incorporate completely, so, so you're not wrong. Yeah, it's gonna swirl around and, um, 100%, yeah. If you don't, even if you don't think it needs water down because that-
Dan: I don't think it does ...
Chris: I would not water that down. Yeah. I, I don't think it needs it, but by watering it down- Mm-hmm
it is releasing more of those aromas that are trapped-
Dan: Yes ...
Chris: in the alcohol. So again, it's gonna be a very different drink, so I highly recommend anything you buy full strength, add a little bit of water and just see, just see how it changes.
Dan: A lot of times when I'm doing tastings with bigger groups, um, they, you know, a lot of times they'll ask me, you know, "What should we have to eat?"
And I always say, "Chocolates are good." Yes. You can get milk chocolates, dark chocolates. You can get, um, you know, kind of c- some, some candies. Um, you can get some, you know, some fruit, some dried, dried cranberries, some dried cherries. And then, you know, you kinda try those with the whiskey. Yeah. Um, what... I did a tasting at Woodford Reserve a while back, and what they had us, they had us, um, I think they had their regular, just regular Woodford, and then they had their double oaked version.
But they had us, you know, we'd do the Woodford, and then we would add a little drop of water just to see how it changed. Yeah. And then we would do, um, the Woodford, or, or we'd do a bourbon cherry that they had, like a little chocolate-covered bourbon cherry. Nice. So we'd eat that, and then we'd drink the Woodford on top of that, and it was just wild.
Chris: Yes.
Dan: But when we did the Woodford double oaked, uh, which I think it uses two barrels, we would add the water to that, and it opened everything right up. And then you add that with the chocolate- It's insane ... in your mouth, and it was just, it was like, it was, you know, six complete different drinks that we had.
Yeah. Even though it was the same, the same two. Yes. So it was such a fun experiment. So-
Chris: Yeah ...
Dan: experiment with food, experiment with chocolate, just different things that are, that are gonna change, change the makeup of the whiskey. So.
Chris: Yeah, yeah. Do some research.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Um, again, one of the books I just read talked about, um, you know, the best flavor pairings.
Mm-hmm. And they recommend, yeah, chocolates, steaks- Yeah ... are kind of, like, the common-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: pairings for whiskey, bourbon, kind of all the same. But, um, some of the uncommon pairings inc- include tomatoes.
Dan: Oh.
Chris: So kind of like- So acidity ... so that acidic vibes Uh-huh Yeah. And I tried it last night, and it wasn't, like, game-changing.
Uh, but, like, yeah, it, it worked. Um, but in addition to that, they talked about bridging two pairings.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: So, and they used the example of apricots. So apricots in whiskey typically, like, they don't necessarily clash, but it's not, like, a desirable combination in most situations. Mm-hmm. But by adding that tomato as a bridge, like, because tomatoes and apricots, like, they pair really well.
Tomatoes and whiskey pair really well. So by adding tomatoes to the mix, like, that apricot-tomato-whiskey combo all of a sudden now works.
Dan: Interesting.
Chris: So, so don't only think about good pairings. Think about, like, bridging pairings that you wouldn't think would work-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: with pairings that do work.
Dan: Hmm.
Chris: So it's, it's weird.
It's a weird world, the food science. And, like, I wanna dig in really, really bad. And Jason Faust is- Yeah ... the guy to talk to, I think, because I've always known that pairings are a thing-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: but until I went to Stretch's dinner, his Sunday night dinner- Mm-hmm ... like, it just blew my mind when he paired a chicken wing with champagne.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: And it just, like... It wasn't a good pairing, it was the perfect pairing. And so, like, when you find that perfect pairing, like, it'll rock your world.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: It'll take a, a drink that's a 10 out of 10 to, like, 100 out of 10. Like, it's just, it's, it's crazy, crazy what it does.
Dan: Man. So
Chris: experiment.
Dan: Yeah. Have fun.
Definitely experiment with your food.
Chris: Yes, yes. This is beautiful. Highly recommend, um, The Last Lion. I think anything from The Beautiful & Damned Whiskey House is gonna be phenomenal, but, um, 100%, if you don't buy The Last Lion, you're missing out.
Dan: I'm gonna do one more. I'll give you guys a little promo. This stuff's pretty good.
Chris: Yes, yes. Well, I've got a bottle for you. Awesome. It's not The Last Lion. Um, it's a different bottle. It's their Old Orleans. I have not had this one. It's their blue bottle. I base everything off the label. Mm-hmm. I'm sorry, everybody. But, um, it's, like, a Moby Dick inspired label- Yeah ... which is sick. And I don't know who did that.
It doesn't necessarily look like Aaron. Aaron, tell me, did you do New Orleans? I don't know, but it's gonna be gorgeous because I love everything Beautiful & Damned does. They do their research. They pick great bottle... They pick great barrels. Great barrels,
Dan: yeah.
Chris: And yeah, phenomenal.
Dan: Well, good. I'm gonna ask you a real quick question.
Yes, sir. Who is your... What's your go-to... What's, what's, what's one of your top cocktail bars that you like, and what do you like about it? In Indy.
Chris: I-
Dan: I'm gonna say in Indy. We'll keep it local.
Chris: Well, that's a very hard question. I don't do a lot of cocktails.
Dan: Uh-huh. I don't either, but-
Chris: Um Lord, I mean, I'm trying to think of the last time I ordered a cocktail at a restaurant.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: I mean, it's probably generic, like old fashioned from, like some random event. When I go to bars or when I go to restaurants, I'm there for the food.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: Um, 'cause I can do cocktails at home-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: if I want a cocktail. And we've got, like, three cocktails that we rotate here and there. Um, I love a whiskey sour.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: So I think that's always what I'm gonna gravitate towards if I'm gonna do a cocktail. Uh, I think it's simple enough that, like, you get enough of the whiskey, but it's still, like, a cocktail. Yeah. It's not straight whiskey. Um, I will say I hate the sugary things, like Jack and Coke. Like-
Dan: The super, yeah
Chris: anything with Coke, too much sugar. Like- Too sweet ... it, it's putting me off. I don't like it.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Um, I'm, I'm a, I'm a neat guy. Like, just whiskey neat, bourbon neat, scotch neat. All right. Like, give it to me neat.
Dan: That's, that's, that's my typical-
Chris: Rocks if I am feeling like I'm, I need some chill. But, like, nah.
Dan: Slude. Yeah, I'm, I'm a typical, uh, just a whiskey guy. Yeah. So,
Chris: yeah. But I, again, I like- experiments. I like discovering new blends- Mm-hmm ... new distilleries. So like, I'm here for the product. Mm-hmm. I don't need to water it down with- Yeah ... sugar and extra ingredients.
Dan: There you go.
Chris: Yes. But whiskey sour, if I had to pick a co- if, if they only had some, you know, well liquor, I'm going whiskey sour.
Yeah. I think.
Dan: Now, I had a, this was, I'd judge the, uh, used to judge the Devour Downtown, um, cocktail contest. Okay. Um, and this was a couple, I can't remember if it was the summer or the winter one, but the, it was a gal from Harry and Izzy's up north, but she had this whiskey, and I think it had like a balsamic vinaigrette in it.
Really? And it was the wildest. It was- Okay ... I mean, I've had a lot of the, like the fat washed whiskey- Yeah ... drinks, which are also really good, but she did something wild. Um, I don't know who, I, I wish I knew who it was. I can't remember who it was, but it was Harry and Izzy's. Um, one of the bartenders did this balsamic vinaigrette whiskey cocktail, and it was- Yeah
fantastic. And again, it was a couple years ago. I don't know if they're still doing it, but.
Chris: That sounds interesting. I love the balsamic
Dan: addition. It was wild. It sounds super cool. It was, and I was like, "I need s- a, a, I need a pitcher of this." Yes, yes. Like a big pitcher of this, but.
Chris: Yes. But yeah. It's, it's killing me that I, I forget their names.
Um, but Ella put me in touch with a cocktail, cocktail, a mixologist you could say, but he did a sweet corn cocktail at the last World Food Competition, and he won the kinda like little, the little cocktail scramble they did-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: uh, because of this sweet corn cocktail, and it was wild. It was good. Wild, but like that addition of sweet corn, like I love Indiana ties.
Yeah. And it was beautiful. I loved it. But I think I'm still gonna prefer just like something neat. Just a little neat.
Dan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, sometimes there's, this is, I, I think this is how it's meant to be. And- It is ... I guess that's another thing, too. You ask about the proof and how do I drink it, you know? A lot of times the, if they're putting it out at this, at a certain proof point or if they are watering it down a little bit, it's like a 107 or whatever it is, that's how they want you to drink it.
Yeah. That's how they like it, so.
Chris: Yeah.
Dan: That's why I'm gonna try and appreciate what they have, and then if I need to change it, I'll change it.
Chris: I like, I like that myth, that, that think, that, that thought. Sorry. I like that thought process.
Dan: Whis- whiskey's hitting.
Chris: Whiskey's hitting. It's, um, yeah, it's, it's, they did it for a reason.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Like you chose this barrel for a reason. Mm-hmm. You chose this proof for a reason. Yeah. So like, I'm gonna trust you.
Dan: This speaks to me, so- Yes ... let it speak to you.
Chris: Yes, yes. I'm, I'll take your food knowledge and your food recommendations. And yeah. Awesome. Like it's 100% recommend the Less Line. That is stunning.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Absolutely stunning. So.
Dan: All right. We got one more bottle?
Chris: The last pour. Let me water this down.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Clean it out.
Dan: Clean it out. So I would cl- yeah, clean that out, and then, uh...
So, Peerless 10 Year
Chris: Okay.
Dan: Boom. Let's p- just get that right in frame.
Chris: It won't... It, it's got your eyes in there. It won't focus on it.
Dan: Whatever it is.
Chris: Yes.
Dan: Boom. Yes. Um, this is one of my... I guess we'll call them a c- I, I, I guess they're a craft distillery. Um, there's... It's, it's, it's, they're not one of the big guys.
Um, they put out so many, so many, so many good barrels. Your wife loves rye. Yeah. They've got some killer ryes. Um, definitely check the, check them out. But this has blown my mind. Um- Is there Um, again, this is on- So it's not
Chris: a
Dan: rye. What is it? No, this is a, this is just a 10-year, um, actually I don't even know.
I, I'm just- I've drank it I love it. It's another- You know you like it ... another 117 proof. I believe, I think it's a bl- I think it's a blend. So it's a barrel proof, um, non-chill filtered, aged 10. I don't think it's a single barrel 'cause it would say single barrel. Um, anyway, all I know, a peerless 10-year 10-year
um, absolutely amazing. Oh, I didn't pour myself any. Pour me a little bit. Um, I can't speak enough praises about this. It's oaky, it's good, it's delicious. It's very well-balanced. Um, on my, on my top 10 pours of the year. Um- Top 10
Chris: pours of the
Dan: year, that's significant ... top 10 pours of the year. And I've had some really, really good, really good whiskey this year.
Um- I love this ... but this one is, uh, I'm, I'm trying to share this with as many people as I can-
Chris: Okay ...
Dan: um, 'cause it's such, I think it's such a good, such a good bottle.
Chris: Stronger on the nose straight
Dan: away. Mm-hmm. This is gonna be a little bit- It's a 10-year? I think it's... Yeah, it's a 10-year. It's gonna be a little bit more- Okay
robust. I think it's- Yeah ... a little bit more robust. There's gonna be a lot, a lot more complexity there. I
Chris: mean, just compared to the Last Lion, the Last Lion was very tame.
Dan: Uh-huh.
Chris: No pun intended. Ah. Um, and that's, uh, it's, it's a mixture. It's a, an eight and a half to 10-year, 10 and a half year. So a little bit older, I would say.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: But, like, it smells younger. Like, it smells more like your four to five-year-old
Dan: Hmm
Chris: It does not taste the way it smells.
Dan: No.
Chris: It smells way more aggressive than it tastes.
Dan: It smells more
Chris: aggressive. If that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. That is-
Dan: Oh, I could sit, I could sit in that nose all day long. Yes.
Chris: How long has this bottle been opened?
Dan: Um, I got this... Let's see. I was on vacation for a week. I got this, um, like three, four weeks ago.
Chris: Okay.
Dan: Now I've, I bought a... So they originally sent me a little sample bottle, um, to try and to, you know, kind of post about. Um, it's, you know it's good if I've, I bought this and I bought a backup. So 'cause I get a lot of free whiskey shipped to me and everything. Sure. So it's if, if I'm going out and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm seeking it out, then it's one that I really like.
Again, this one's gonna, this is gonna hit my top 10-
Chris: Yeah ...
Dan: um, that I've tried so far, and it's only May, June. It's only June, so. Nice. Yeah. But man, there's been, there've been some really good whiskeys, um, that have been put out, uh, this year, and this is, this is, in my, in my mind This is- ... this is, this is one of them.
Chris: This is great. It's like, I, I think it's really well-rounded. Like, it's not overly sweet. Mm-hmm. It's not overtly, you know, I'm, I'm saying tannic in a bad way, but like, it's not like super woody, smoky. It's very, like, it's got the best of everything.
Dan: And I should have done more research, and I'm really bad about doing that 'cause-
I just like to drink. So if you put something good in front of me, I'm gonna be like, "That's good." I'm not, I'm, I, I, I've got some friends that really nerd out about it, and they'd be able to tell me everything that went into this, and da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. Yes. All I know is it's really good, and I like it, and I like sharing it.
Um, so.
Chris: Hit it with a, a little, again, I'm a water guy.
Dan: Oh, yeah. I love to- So I- ... pipe it down ... I, I haven't done that yet. I'm gonna do the, uh, water in the mouth trick
Chris: Maybe I had too much water
Dan: It, it pulls out a lot more oak
Chris: I didn't, I think I prefer it without, without
Dan: water It pulls, it pulls out a little bit too much oak for me if I, uh, if I put the water
Chris: in I need to try to get it with less water, but yes
Dan: You got plenty to drink
Chris: That is gorgeous
So on this note of top 10 pours.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: It is your last day on Earth.
Dan: Ooh. Oh, man. Yeah.
Chris: You can choose absolutely anything. There's gonna be a little time portal and, like, you could pull a barrel from 10 years ago if you want. What are you gonna reach for knowing it's your last pour-
Dan: Wow ... ever? Um, man, there's some really old, like- Some of the old, old Stitzel-Weller Van Winkle, um-
Chris: Ooh, see, I've never tried Van Winkle.
Is that, is that actually worth it?
Dan: I mean, uh, retail's really good. Um, I mean, yes. Any other, the, the Van Winkle stuff's good. It's just, it's, you know, the s- s- the secondary market on some of these prices, on some of these things is, is outrageous.
Chris: Yes.
Dan: I think that's, that's a really nice bottle. I think it's, like, a $200 bottle retail.
I think four, 4-something on the secondary.
Chris: Okay.
Dan: Um, I, I mean, I think it's a really- I would
Chris: buy this
Dan: 100%. I think it's a really good bottle. Um- This is
Chris: gorgeous, yes.
Dan: Th- that's a whole... The secondary market's just a whole other- ... that's a whole other ballgame to get into. Yes. Um, yeah, the, the- I,
Chris: in my opinion, I would say most whiskeys are not worth secondary prices.
Dan: No, it's like, you know, no.
Chris: That's, that's my opinion. I could be way off, but, like, I, I love a Blanton's, and I'll buy it from Buffalo Trace every day of the week-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: if I lived closer. But if I'm gonna pay secondary prices, like-
Dan: Yeah, and that's, it's, and I, I- Probably not ... I think they're seeing that now 'cause they've, they've kind of created this, I don't wanna say a false scarcity, but now, like, that stuff's just, it's, it's everywhere.
And the s- I mean, the secondary market's- I wouldn't
Chris: say it's a false scarcity. It's just the decline of the industry.
Dan: Well, they've, they, um, they've... Yeah, but there's certain markets that just get flooded with that stuff. Like, you go to Ohio, you go to- Yeah ... out to Oregon, like, you see that stuff just... Like, stuff that we wish we could see.
This was a pre-COVID, during COVID- Even just
Chris: regional, okay ...
Dan: during COVID s- sitting on the shelves. Really? Yeah. Like, Ohio used to get everything. Like, uh, I, when I, I spent some time out in Oregon with my grandparents and, uh, you know, I could go, I could go to liquor stores and be like, "Hey, do you have any E.
H. Taylor Single Barrel?" And they'd be like, "Uh, nah, hey, no, we'll, we'll call you at the end of the week when we get it in."
Chris: Hmm.
Dan: And sure enough, yeah, ab- and I was there for a week. End of the week, they're calling me like, "Hey, we got our cases in. We'll, do you need anything else?" Hmm. Like, it was just, it was so nonchalant.
Chris: Hmm.
Dan: And they just had such bigger, bigger shipments of it. Um, all right, back to the what I would try. Um- Yes ... oh, man, I've got- It's
Chris: a hard question to
Dan: answer. It's, it's a really hard question to answer. I've got, like, a- And it's
Chris: gonna be, your answer's gonna be different today than it will be tomorrow-
Dan: Yeah, it really will
and yesterday. I'm just going based on the bottles that I've got. So, uh, there's one bottle that I've got that I haven't opened. It's, uh, another E. H. Taylor. Love E. H. Taylor. Yes. It's a sour mash. It was their first, um, special release that they did. Now, most of their special r- special releases have been absolutely phenomenal.
Um, like the, the Seasoned Wood, the 2016 Seasoned Wood that I opened in Wyoming, it was spectacular. The, it was the right timing and everything. Um, and no, no price point putting up, you know, being put on that stuff. Um-
Chris: Oh, yeah, it's free ... uh, w- It's your last pour. It's free.
Dan: I would, I would... That's, that's one I would definitely open.
Um, I think there's, uh, there's a couple th- there's, like, a Blade and Bow 30, I believe, that just came out. I'd love to try that. Um- I, you know, I don't know, man. Like, uh- It's, it's, that's- I'll put you on the spot ... that's a, it's a, it's a hard question. Um- It is ... that's if... Oh, man. I don't know how to answer that.
I can, I can go with my- I can go with some of my favorite pours that I've opened. I'll, I'll, I'll just do that, and what I would go back to. Um, back to the E.H. Taylor Barrel Proof Batch 9 has been one of my-
Chris: Yeah ...
Dan: all-time favorite pours. I did a Stagg Junior Batch 9, which was also awesome. Um, man, I'm, everything's like Buffalo Trace.
I'm a big Buffalo Trace fanboy. Yes. Um, George T. Stagg, I think it was a, I think it was a s- 14, 2014. It was 138.7 proof, I believe. Um, that was, that was also really, really phenomenal, and they've, they've had some other really, really good pours too. Um, but man, yeah, I don't know. Those are my- Nice ... alcohol's kicking in, but-
Chris: Well done.
So based on what's on the table-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: are you choosing the Peerless as, as your last pour?
Dan: Uh, yeah. It's, I, it's, it's j- It's so robust. It's so, it's so well-rounded. Um, I, I- What- This is, I think this is a perfect pour. It's-
Chris: Again, what I'm surprised by is just how vastly different everything on the table actually is.
Mm-hmm. I mean, you can... It's, it's, I mean, they're all
They're all loosely the same ingredients, correct? Like, they're not... None of the, none of these are wheated, right? It's all corn. Corn.
Dan: The... Yeah, I mean, it's all c- they're m- the- there might be a little bit of wheat in that, but I- Wheat a little bit, but predominantly corn ... it's, yeah. Yeah,
Chris: yeah. Because typically, I'm not a fan of the wheated.
Dan: Okay.
Chris: Like, if you gave me, like- Is- ... a side by side, like- Mm-hmm ... wheated is always just like, "Pthth. I'll choose you last."
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Um, and none of these, to me, seemed like they had that flavor profile-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: if I had to assume. But-
Dan: I could be way wrong. I have no idea about the Peerless.
Chris: It's gorgeous. Yeah, I love it.
Um, and I will say, yeah, the, the older is better-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: based on what we've tried here. Um-
Dan: So if you're going Jack 14 over Peerless 10, what are you choosing?
Chris: Oh, the Peerless.
Dan: Peerless? Okay.
Chris: Uh, but again, that's because I'm not a super huge fan of the way Jack finishes.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: It's a gorgeous bottle. I bought it.
I don't regret buying it-
Dan: Uh-huh ...
Chris: but I think this tastes better- Yeah ... to be honest. But I think it's just, again, the, the, the w- the way the bottle, the w- the ingredients in the bottle- Yeah ... in the barrel, it just... I don't know. I'm just not as big of a fan of that flavor profile as I am this- Yeah ... and, like, 100% the Last Lion.
Um-
Dan: That was good. That was really
Chris: good. Yes. I, honestly, I think for my last pour, I'm either going Last Lion-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: only because it's super fresh in my mind, or I'm kind of going nostalgia. And one of my wife and I's favorite bot- bottles is, um,
Bone Snapper Rye.
Dan: Oh, yeah.
Chris: It's another MGP-
Dan: Is that a, um... That's, um- What's the d- what's the, uh-
Chris: Backbone ... Ba- uh- Backbone Bourbon ...
Dan: but what's... Yeah, Backbone.
Chris: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, we prefer the, the Back- Bone Snapper rye-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: to the bourbon.
Dan: Backbone's got some really good- The
Chris: corn, yeah ...
Dan: they've got some really good-
Chris: Absolutely, yeah
Dan: really good stuff coming out.
Chris: And I will say, I, again, it's probably nostalgia, I just like, it was pre-kids, my wife and I just discovered it was batch one-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: of the Bone Snapper, and that just rocked our world. Yeah. I mean, it was gorgeous flavor. It was, again, pre-kids. I love my kids. But, like, the time with my wife pre-kids was different.
I will say it was different, but yeah. And it's, again, if I could have batch one of that-
Dan: Uh-huh ...
Chris: Bone Snapper rye whiskey, like, pff.
Dan: It's interesting, too, to see, like- Like,
Chris: the food memories attached to it ...
Dan: what, what you, what you tasted then and what you remember versus what you, when you go back and try it again, what you actually feel.
B- uh, just because everything, like, your palate's changed, your taste has changed- Yes ... everything has changed. Yes. And so it's an in- it's an interesting take going back and trying those things.
Chris: What's, it's hard because, and that's what I hate about single barrels- Mm ... is,
Dan: and
Chris: I don't know if that's single barrel.
I, I don't think it is, yeah. I'm just touching it. But, like, and I, I love and I hate single barrels because it's a one-time thing.
Dan: Uh-huh
Chris: And like, once it's gone, it's gone.
Dan: Yep.
Chris: And like that's why I kind of wanna stock up. Like if you find a barrel, like a single barrel that you absolutely love, stock up on that shit.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Because the second barrel, the second batch is gonna be different. It could be better- Yeah ... it could be worse, but it's gonna be different. That's all we know.
Dan: Now that being said, um, I've had some really good single barrels that have, I- w- again, kind of back to the whole thing, you know, if you try a whiskey once, don't, don't write it off right away 'cause it could be, you know, what if you had to e- Give it
Chris: a week
Dan: what's, what- Try it again ... what have you had that day? Even if, you know, if you're at a bar or whatever else, go back, try it again. Don't just, don't just write it off. I'm, I'm, was notorious for doing that, um, you know, when I first started drinking. I had, uh, there's some really good, really, really good Henry McKenna bottles, um, that I've had that were absolutely phenomenal.
Um, but I, but before I had those, I had some really bad single barrel Henry McKenna bottles that were- Okay ... just, I mean, I just, I completely wrote it off and I was like, "Oh, this is, I don't have, you know, I, I can't try this," and then it's, it's, they've redeemed themselves. Um, so there's, again, and everything's, everything's personal, but there's, there's, there's goods and there's bad.
So if you try something and you don't like it, maybe wait a while, maybe try it again 'cause you're probably gonna like it. Yes. So, mm.
Chris: Well, I think you alluded to this earlier, but like our taste buds change.
Dan: Oh, yeah. 1,000%.
Chris: The bottle changes.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: Everything's changing.
Dan: Everything's changing. Every
Chris: day. Yeah.
So, yeah, try it again.
Dan: So the, even the, I mean, even the first time I tried this, I mean, this is, again, I opened this three weeks ago, so it's a, it's, you know, it's not changed too much, but-
Chris: But it has changed ...
Dan: I'm getting a little bit more oak From my end. I'm not a very good taste profile guy, but I'll... Here, pour a little bit more of that.
Chris: When I- I've got a little bit still.
Dan: All right.
Chris: Um, it's I want to be that guy as well
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: of like, "Oh, I'm tasting this, I'm tasting that." Like the, the wines, the wine experts- Yeah ... the wine snobs. And it's fun and it's cool, but if you tell me what to look for, I'll find it. But I think it's better if you discover it on your own.
Dan: That's, so that, that is one thing, I don't know if I did, I ho- I hope I did that. I was trying to get what you, what do you taste from this? Yes. Versus-
Chris: Yes ... '
Dan: cause if I tell you, if I tell you brown sugar-
Chris: You did ...
Dan: then you're gonna be- Yeah ... you're gonna be reaching for that brown sugar. Yeah, you, 100%
Chris: you ask what I
Dan: tasted first.
So I, I asked what you did first- Yeah, yeah ... and then I'll pull back to, to what... 'Cause if I, if I tell you brown sugar, apricot, cinnamon, you're gonna be-
Chris: Well, I'm gonna look for it on my next-
Dan: And then, and then if you don't find it- ... tasting ... you're gonna be like, "Well, I'm wrong. I'm wrong." No, you're not wrong.
It's- No,
Chris: you're crazy.
Dan: I'm not wrong ... you taste, you taste what you taste.
Chris: Yes.
Dan: It's like you don't like spaghetti and meatballs, you, you know, you're crazy- Yeah ... 'cause you don't like nuts. Again,
Chris: we're 100% different people. Yeah. Again, your taste buds are very different than mine.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: Your food memories, which impact the way you taste things, are very different than mine.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: So you're gonna see things that I don't- Yeah ... and vice versa, and that's beautiful. I like it. So I love the fact that people can taste something and describe every single detail, but does it matter to me?
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Kind of, but not really.
Dan: It's, I think that's one thing with the reviews that people get stuck on is...
And, and I've had a lot of people who are like, "Man, I just, it, this wasn't as good as I thought it was gonna be. This wasn't as good as you described it." Hmm. And I was like, "Well, then it's not as good- That's okay ... it's not as good to you." It's not as good to you. That's, that's completely fine. Um, I do, I've got some friends, I've got some friends that are whiskey writers, and it's like, you know, there, it's, man, I'm, I'm, I'm galloping down an open field of dandelions-
and we, we, we pull up to the barn, and there's this stale hay that I, I spoon. Yeah. The, the, the crisp fall breeze, winter's th- you know, comes through. Yes. And the crisp apples hit me, and I'm like, "What the- Keep going ... what, what are we ta- What, are we talking about whiskey or what? And I, you know, I'll take that journey with you every day.
I like it. And I like the, I like the descriptiveness that you're giving, but, but man, you know. Do, do you like it? That's why, like, on a lot of my re- It's a 10 out of 10 ... on a lot of my reviews, I'm like, "Yep, it's good. Man, I like it." That's- "This is, again, peerless 10, top 10. I love it." Yeah.
Chris: I th- I think my recommendations would be find someone you know and you trust.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: So if you've talked about three or four or five different bar- or different bottles, and I've tried those bottles and I like them-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: then I can trust you. Like, our flavors sync up. I like it. There's a million influencers out there.
Dan: 1000%.
Chris: If you, if I don't like what you like-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: maybe I'll just go somewhere else.
Mm-hmm. I'll, like, you know, listen to this influencer instead of you.
Dan: And, and that's like- And- And I've g- I've got a buddy, my buddy Jason, that we do, I mean, we did, I don't know, probably did 50 barrel picks this last year.
Chris: Yeah.
Dan: Like, easily 50 barrel picks I'm gonna align with him on 87. No, that's not right.
I'm gonna align with him on 37 out of the 50. Okay. Like, we're gonna be, we're gonna be right in line. But again, like I was talking about, he likes stuff that's real funky. So I'm gonna try some of them and be like- Yeah ... I don't like it. I know you- I wanna try
Chris: some of those ...
Dan: I know you're gonna like it. Yeah.
Actually, I, I got, I got a ton of whiskey I can bring you- ... that's real funky and weird. Um, but again, you know, so you're not gonna like everything that everybody's gonna like, but it's, I guess that's part of the d- that's part of the discovery. But yeah, if you can align with someone on, if you kind of find their profile and find you like what they like, especially with single barrel picks, then that's, that's the way to...
Like, there's a lot of, uh, like there's a lot of, like liquor stores and, and restaurants and stuff too that, you know, they go on barrel picks and they have their own special blends. Like, St. Elmo's w- they have, like Woodford. Those were some of the first barrel picks that I've gone on.
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Dan: I don't even know what pick they're on right now, probably 20 something.
Right. But the- and they usually do a pretty good, um, job describing the profile. 'Cause if they have 20 different, you know, Woodford barrel picks, and they're, "Okay, this one's more cherry forward, this one's more oak, this one's more- Mm ... you know, vanilla," whatever it is, they do a good job describing. So even though they've got all these, all these different ones, and they've had different people that have gone on, you know, all these barrel picks, so it's- Yeah
it's the group that's choosing, um-
Chris: I like that, that it's a group-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: instead of just one person.
Dan: It's, so like, like with, well, so with this I, I did my chugs with me and my girlfriend. So I had her, you know, she- That's awesome ... she picked one of the barrels and I picked one of the barrels. Okay. Um, a lot of times it's- Which, which is hers?
Uh, hers is the better one. Hers is... And I actually, dang it, I actually like hers a little bit better too. No, no. It's, it's got a little bit more brown sugar, um, a little bit more, it's- I
Chris: mean, let's be honest, she influenced that
Dan: decision- She, she did ... a little bit. It's got a little bit more sweetness, um- Yes
coming off on that. But that's-
Chris: Well, because it's- There's that relationship
Dan: Yeah
Chris: And I, 100% that influences how you taste that.
Dan: Oh, yeah
Chris: So you might prefer her input- Mm-hmm ... more than I prefer her input.
Dan: There's also, like, the ... I mean, we had a lot of drinks that day- ... and I was going for the more robust-
Chris: Okay
Dan: like, kind of more sharp. So this one's, this one's gonna be a little bit more sharp, whereas this one's- Okay ... gonna be a b- little bit more sweet, more- I haven't tried that one, should I? Well, sure. Yeah, pop it open. Let
Chris: me clean this out.
Dan: Um-
Chris: Let's see if I like-
Dan: Yeah, it's, it's- ... you better than her ... it's f- it's fun to see, um, you know, who's on the pick and who's, who's choosing, who's choosing what.
Um, like, l- like, with that, so normally I like to do my barrel picks with, you know, six to, six to ... Oh, there it is. Six to 10 people, I think is a good- I like that ... is a good range. You get anything over 10, um, and it gets a little bit too diluted. And normally, and it's l- it's all a vote system, you know? So it's all
So typically what we'll do is we'll vote two out right away- Okay ... and then we'll, we narrow it down to two, and then what I like to do is we'll pull the whole group out, and then they'll blind us all. So they give you a left and right, and so you're just left, right.
Chris: Mm-hmm.
Dan: You don't know what it is. Right, right.
So left, right, left, right, left, right, and then we vote on that, and then you're like, "I like left." Well, that wasn't what I picked before, but that's the, that's- Right ... that's the one that I like now.
Chris: Yeah.
Dan: And then it's, um, it's a pick from there.
Chris: I think the blind is the way to go.
Dan: Oh, definitely.
Chris: And because, yeah, it, I'm impacted by, again, branding.
Branding, marketing. So if I prefer this picture- Yes ... over that picture- Mm-hmm ... 100%. And it's unfair because this one's been opened for a bit- Mm-hmm ... and you just cracked that one, right? I just cracked that one, yeah. So, and I would say I kind of prefer this one. Like, this one feels more mellow. Mm-hmm. Well, that's- But didn't you, didn't you say- What's that?
you picked a more aggressive one? I picked the, uh- Straight away? Is that the one? Oh, no, that's the that's the lower proof one. Yeah. It's lower? Yeah, it's the 114. I thought, I thought it was a little bit, um, I, I pulled more ... I haven't had that one for a minute. I pulled more, more distinct flavors out of that one.
I'd also had- Yeah ... 10 barrels. Yeah, so I don't know if it's because this one's been open for a
little bit and that one was fresh cracked- Mm ... but, like, 100%, this one is way smoother.
Dan: Okay. Yeah, so it's, it's probably mellow- It's, well- ... it's probably mellowed out quite a bit ...
Chris: so A, it's mellowed out- Yeah ... B, it's 2% less-
Dan: Mm-hmm ...
Chris: if that matters to, I mean,
Dan: 2%.
Chris: 2%, yeah. 2%, 2%, but.
Dan: You're just shooting hairs at this point
Chris: But I have sampled a few things today Mm-hmm But 100%, yeah, I, I th- I think I like this one over that one.
But again, it's, it's a, it's an unfair comparison. But that is beautiful. I like that bottle a lot. Thank you. Chuck Force.
Dan: Thank you, Aaron.
Chris: Yes.
Dan: Thank you, Aaron, for the artwork.
Chris: It is a stunning bottle. Yeah, I love it. So what are your recommendations on somebody going to the bur- the, the liquor store and there's a million choices.
Where do you even start?
Dan: Man, um, I would start just... Actually, you know, I wouldn't even start at the liquor store. If you do start at the liquor store, just, you know, ask the, ask the employees what they like. Sure. If they have any single barrels, a lot of times they have, like, samples you can try.
Chris: Okay, yeah.
Dan: So you can try samples from the stores before you buy the single barrels. I know Sobro Spirits, Broader Ripple, they're really good about doing that. Mm-hmm. They'll pour out samples. Ray at Rural Inn. Rural Inn's another, they, Rural Inn has some really good barrel picks. Um, and then there's even some, like, disti- like, Circle City, Circle City Whiskey.
They're right by- Yeah ... the fairgrounds. Um, like, you can go in and you can try basically most of their bottles before you buy them. Nice. So they've got a really cool tasting room, so shout out Circle City. Um, so go, like, try it before you buy it. Or, you know, you don't tr- uh, I, I guess depending on what your price point is, you know- Yeah
I got, I got hooked into, like, a, "Hey, it's Friday, let's buy a couple bottles of whiskey- ... and it's Friday ride day, let's buy- Yes ... a couple Ryes." And so it was really fun, but it got really expensive really quick. But, you know- Yes Kind of find a few brands, find a- try a few drinks and see what's- see what your palate aligns with.
And I think that's gonna take a little time to, it's gonna take a little time to develop. 100%. It's like you're not just gonna get it overnight. And then, you know, again, we talked about, you know, just because someone, just because I like this, and I'm, I'm, "Hey, drink this. I like this. This is the best thing ever," and you don't like it, then you're not wrong.
You're not wrong by any means. You know, if I tell you, I r- I, you know, "Drink my chugs. These chugs are the best thing ever." Which, I mean, they are.
Chris: Very good.
Dan: They are.
Chris: 100% very good.
Dan: But if you don't like them, then you don't like them, and that's, that, you know... You know, find something that you like, find your palate.
And, and it's gonna take a while to discover. Find that and then kind of go on, go on that path and try the things and find the things and buy the things that you buy. 'Cause you can buy a lot of whiskey, and I've got a lot of friends... I've, I've got a lot of whiskey in my cabinet that I'm not gonna... I'll wind up giving out or making cocktails with people- Mm
um, just 'cause I'm not, I'm not gonna drink it again. I've got a lot of stuff that I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull towards. This is, this being one of them.
Chris: Yes.
Dan: Um, so.
Chris: I love it. Yeah, 100% recommend just experiment a little bit. You know-
Dan: It's all about... Yes, experiment. You gotta, you have to experiment. You gotta try before you...
Try before you buy if you can, but-
Chris: Yes. And I would say take notes.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: So talk or think about percentages.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: You know, if you like the higher proof versus the lower proof, document that. If you like rye versus a wheated- Mm-hmm ... document that. And 100%, that is a great way to start because I know right off the bat- I'm not gonna prefer a wheated over a rye.
So I know if there's two choices, I'm going rye. Mm-hmm. 100% that, that, that's historically what I prefer. It's what my wife prefers, and that's a big, that's a big factor. If your significant other prefers something-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: I don't know. If you buy what they don't like, then you get more. But that's- ... that's pretty selfish.
I don't know, so buy what your significant other prefers. Uh-huh. Um, and hopefully your tastes align.
Dan: But one way to get around that, and one thing that I, again- ... 'cause I, I get shipped a lot of whiskey, like, I get like six bottles this week or something. Oh, geez. So I like to go in blind. Yeah. I know nothing about...
Like, okay, this, I, I know it's a 10-year. I know it's from Peerless. All I know is I love it. I did zero research on it. Yeah. So I don't know price point on things. I don't know what it is. I don't know what the makeup is. I like it or I don't.
Chris: Yeah.
Dan: If I, I should have done the research, 'cause I really like that.
But- ... a lot of times when I like it, I'll go in and, okay, okay, actually what is... Oh, this is a rye, or this is a, you know, this is a, you know, whatever it is. Yeah. And I'll do it that way. So that's, that's another fun way to... I, and again, 'cause I know you like the pictures. I know you like the- I know you like the artwork.
So- The branding
Chris: is huge ...
Dan: so if... And, 'cause that's what they do. Like, the San Francisco Whiskey, or the San Francisco, what- whatever the, um, the-
Chris: Any of the competitions ...
Dan: the, the, the competition that they did, so they do it all blind. So it's, a lot of times they, um, they just have, you know, 10 glasses sitting in front of them, and they're like, okay.
Hm. It's completely blind, and so there's- Yeah ... no artwork. There's no, there's no inspiration behind it.
Chris: It's a major factor.
Dan: Yeah. It
Chris: truly is.
Dan: Yeah. So that's, that's a really good way to do it. So, or if you can, if you have a partner that likes, you know, likes doing whiskey, you know, maybe take something that she really likes and compare it to something, maybe one or two other things that she might not Potentially, you know-
Chris: Ooh,
Dan: yeah
like and, and try it that way, and then see- Yeah ... see if her, her tastes actually change. So- Yes ... 'cause y- I mean, you can be so, like, again, if I tell you, "This is, this is, this is amazing. This is so amazing. Go out and buy this." It, it truly
Chris: is. It truly is.
Dan: And that, that's gonna influence you so much because you think that you
You're gonna think that this is ama- it, it, it is amazing, but you're gonna- ... you're gonna, you're gonna want, you're gonna want that. You're gonna wanna pull that and really get that and try that.
Chris: Yeah.
Dan: Versus if you try it and you hate it, then, I mean, you try it and you hate it. You're not going to.
Chris: Yeah, yeah.
Dan: But-
Chris: But again, that, that follows suit with-
Dan: Mm ...
Chris: follow people that you align with.
Dan: Yes.
Chris: So if I've tried something from you and I love it- Mm ... yes, I trust your recommendations if I follow you.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: Or if I trust your recommendations and it wasn't for me, then yeah, meh.
Dan: It's, it, and, and- It's not for me ... again, there's gonna be- And that's okay
there's gonna be, like, an 85... Again, like I said, my buddy that we align on 85% of things. That's- Yeah ... there's, there's, there's a certain percentage of that, that he gets, that you're, you're going to and you're not going to. Not everyone likes Italian subs. Not everyone likes- Yes ... breakfast
Chris: burritos. But like you said, try it multiple times.
Yeah, multiple times. Andrew Zimmer- Andrew Zimmern is a big Advocate of this is like you can't base it off the first try.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: Try it two times, try it three times, try it four times.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: You know, the day of the week matters. What you ate before matters. What-
Dan: 1,000%. 1,000%.
Chris: You know, your food memories matter, so try it multiple times- Yeah
before you make a decision. But yeah. But just experiment. Yeah. We got like 10 bottles here.
Dan: One, two, three, four, five, six,
Chris: seven. Maybe six. Four, five bottles. Um, and yeah, and they're all beautiful in their own ways and their own, you know, their unique things. But, um, yeah.
Dan: This was good. This was
Chris: fun. Choose, choose what makes you happy.
Dan: Yeah. Yes. And w- and whiskey makes me happy.
Chris: Yes. Tuesday I might prefer Last Lion. Thursday I might prefer Peerless.
Dan: Mm.
Chris: Friday I might prefer Chug's, you know.
Dan: You know, and one of the things- You gotta have them all ... I like to, I, there's not a lot of days that I'll just sit and drink one whiskey.
Chris: Mm.
Dan: Like it's, I'll, I'll move to different brands.
I'll usually, like so Saturday I think I started with, I think I started with a couple, I g- started with a couple bourbons, then I switched over to the rye. You know? Okay. I went to like a Michter's Rye, and then I went to a, a Sagamore Rye and a few other things. Yeah. So it just k- kind of, it just kind of create your own little journey.
Yeah. So it's a, it's a fun little way to- I love it ... never, I don't, I, I'm not, there's not a lot of times I'm sitting down with just one bottle and drinking-
Chris: Yeah ...
Dan: just that bottle. That's, that's more-
Chris: Well, on that note-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: once you open a bottle-
Dan: Uh-huh ...
Chris: how long is it good for?
Dan: So-
Chris: I mean, historically speaking, this will not go bad.
Dan: So-
Chris: It will oxidize-
Dan: It's gonna, it's gonna oxidize ... and it will change. So it's gonna oxidize a little bit, so I say anytime you get under 40%, you need to drink it within the next, depending on the proof, six months to a year.
Chris: Okay.
Dan: So if you're sitting down around this level, you need to, you need to finish it.
Clean it out. 'Cause what, yeah, 'cause what that'll do, um... I mean, I've had, God, man- There've been some really cool bottles that I've seen. There was like an Elijah Craig 23 that one of my friends had, and he had like this much in it.
Chris: Yeah.
Dan: And it looked like apple cider. It was dis- It was dis- it was like, you can't drink that.
Chris: Oh,
Dan: no. Like have you ever... I don't know if you've ever left whiskey, like, on your night s- that sounds horrible. Have you ever left whiskey on your table at the end of the night?
Chris: Yes.
Dan: And gone back and- Yeah ... you know, like you look at it the next day and it's like a little musty and like a little... It's just dis- like you don't- Yeah
you don't wanna drink that. Yeah. So that's basically what happens. So the more, the more you let it sit, the more oxygen that hits it, the more it's gonna- It's bad. Yeah. It's, it's a bad- Bad thing ... it's bad. It's a bad thing. So I'd say 40% or lower, you need to finish that within the next six months to a year.
Copy that. So that's, that's typically my rule. Or if you wanna move it, you can move it to a smaller container.
Chris: Mm.
Dan: Um, you can move it to sample containers, or I've seen some guys that will stick marbles, will stick physical marbles in the bottles- Okay ... so, to... 'Cause what it does is it-
Chris: Anything to remove air
Dan: removes the air, and then there's- Oh, yeah ... a special gas that you can get to put in if you really wanna get crazy with it. Yeah. But just drink it.
Chris: Yeah, just drink
Dan: it. Just drink it.
Chris: Yeah, don't save it. Yeah. I'm, I'm admittedly sitting on like one shot of a couple different barrels because I love this bottle.
Mm-hmm. I'm gonna save it. It's a bad idea.
Dan: I've- Don't do that ... I've, I've done, I did that with one, um, yeah, I did that with a bottle that I, I'd opened with a friend and I, you know, wait- I was waiting for him to come back into town and-
Chris: Ah ...
Dan: share the last pour. And it was, it was still good, but it, like it didn't have- It's not the same
didn't quite... It, it was a higher proof, which helped out a little bit, but it didn't quite, it didn't quite have the kick that, that did. Yeah. It was, it was more about the, the memory and the-
Chris: Yeah ...
Dan: celebration with the person. But yeah, anything under 40%, drink it.
Chris: Yeah. It's not worth holding onto. We'll say that.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: So on that note, infinity bottles, how do you feel about that?
Dan: Man, you know, I, I tr- I'm... I, I've got some friends that are really into it. And they're like, "One ounce this." And I've got some friends that have made some really cool ones.
Chris: Yeah.
Dan: And it's, it's a really cool idea. It's a fun idea es- uh, es- especially if you're talking about, you know, if you've only got so much whiskey left- Yeah
let's dump it into a bottle. Um, I, I don't have the, I don't have the, I don't have the time or like the, the- I, I, I can't do it. I just, I c- I, 'cause I, I'm not gonna keep track, 'cause I've got some guys who are like, "Oh, I've got, you know, this, this, and this." Yeah. "And we put this big blend in," and, and they love it, and I try it, and it's like great, and it's like, are you gonna, are, are you ever gonna recreate that?
Chris: You can't.
Dan: You c- you really can't. It's
Chris: impossible, yeah.
Dan: Now, I've also got a buddy that's has a full barrel, and he's- A barrel? A barrel- Okay ... he's, he's dumping full bottles into. Oh, geez. It's really cool. I mean, it's real- But so he'll take stuff like this-
Chris: Yeah ...
Dan: and he'll dump it in. He's taken really cool bottles, um-
Chris: Is it, um, Steel Cracker?
Dan: No. You know this guy? It's, uh, Nick Anderson. It's Amongst the Whiskeys. No, th- So shout out to Amongst the Whiskeys ...
Chris: totally, totally different guy.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: But, um, I think it's, I think his Instagram's Steel Cracker.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Google or search Cracker on Instagram. Mm. You'll find him. He did an in, he did an infinity barrel.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: And yeah, anybody that sent him a bottle- Yeah ... he poured in.
Dan: So that, that's, that's, that's- If
Chris: he liked it, he poured it in ...
Dan: it's the, it's the same thing. And- So but it's like Yeah, but there's so, there's so many factors at that point. Yeah. And it's like how often are you doing it, and then like-
Chris: Yes ...
Dan: and those, those, the whiskey in there is gonna oxidize unless you did it all- Yes
within like a couple days. But, you know- Yeah ... it's, it's a cool concept. Um-
Chris: So on, on the infinity bottle- I've- I say bottle, not barrel ...
Dan: I've done infinity bottles before- Yeah ... and it's like, it's, you know, it's like cool and it's like all right, let's... But I've g- y- there's so much other better stuff to-
Chris: Yes
Dan: it's cool to, it's, it's really cool to, if you like it, it's really cool to nerd out on. It's really cool. Let's
Chris: say it's a fun experiment. It's a
Dan: fun experiment.
Chris: And I would say if it's between an infinity bottle- Mm-hmm ... versus saving one shot for your friend to come back-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: do the infinity bottle. Yeah.
Because it's eliminating oxygen.
Dan: Mm-hmm.
Chris: The less oxygen you have, the better it's going to be.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: So it's gonna hold up a lot better if there's less oxygen- Mm ... in this bottle versus like saving that nostalgia-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: for that friend to come back.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: So it's, it's a fun experiment if it's one shot. It's a- Don't save the shots.
Yeah, mix it up. Blend your own. If you love this and you love that- Yeah ... sure, combine one shot. You can
Dan: always, we can always- Take a risk ... mix and combine. You can combine. It's always a- Yes ... a different, different thing. But- Yes. ... I, it's, I, there's, uh, w- we have such limited... I'm getting so old, and we have such limited time.
Chris: Yes.
Dan: Like you, you know, your time is super valuable. You know, you've got everything you're doing with your wife and everything, and it's, you know, d- do you have time to sit down and do that, or, or are you, are you cracking new bottles? Are you making new memories? Yes. I'd say make the new memories and- 100%
and move on. So. Yes.
Chris: Especially like, like Dan said, if it gets below 40%-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: take it.
Dan: Take it. Done.
Chris: Yes.
Dan: Drink it.
Chris: Enjoy it. Enjoy it. While it's good-
Dan: Yeah ...
Chris: make an infinity bottle if that makes you happy.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: But, you know, don't wait for your friend to come back.
Dan: Yeah. '
Chris: Cause it's not g- it's not the same whiskey.
It's gonna oxidize. Yeah. It's gonna be bad. But enjoy. Yeah. So Dan, I appreciate this so much. We're at t- we're way over time. We're way
Dan: over time.
Chris: So- That's all right ... I appreciate the experience. I appreciate the knowledge. Exper- appreciate the experientation. Um, follow Dan. Where can we find you?
Dan: You can find me, Heavy Bourbon on Instagram.
Uh- Yes ... The Heavy Bourbon on TikTok if that's your, if that's your thing. We'll link
Chris: everything below.
Dan: Yeah. Yes. Um, I mean, that's pretty much it. I'm just, I'm all around. Um, I'll tell you what, we're gonna do, I'm gonna do one more of these. This was a really good... You guys did a really good job on this, The Last Lion.
Chris: The Beautiful and the Damned.
Dan: Beautiful and the Damned.
Chris: Came in really hard. So- Really beautiful. Give me one too. Yeah.
Dan: Yeah. So we'll take one more. It is
Chris: a beautiful pour.
Dan: That was a really good pour.
Chris: And- 100% recommend ...
Dan: I'm, uh, again, I like, I don't wanna say I'm like shockingly surprised, but like I see these and I see...
'Cause it's a cool f- it's a cool freaking bottle.
Chris: It
Dan: is a- Like with the lion ...
Chris: stunning artwork.
Dan: What's, what, what's on the other bottle? There's a lion. There's something else.
Chris: It's Ben Franklin.
Dan: Okay.
Chris: Yes. The Last Diplomat.
Dan: Yeah.
Chris: Um, yeah, I, I couldn't tell you the name, but-
Dan: Yeah, so ... Ben Franklin. Anyway, really cool looking bottles.
Um-
Chris: Thank you, Aaron Scamahorn
Dan: Good job, man. Aaron's- Cheers. Aaron's, Aaron's the one who did these, so- Yes, sir ... cheers. He's a good guy. Mm.
Chris: On that note-
Dan: Mm ...
Chris: experiment, try new things. Tell us what you think. Tell us if you like these bottles. Go buy them. Cheers. Cheers.
